What saw do I need and anything else I need?

[HLA91]

Hey everyone

I have decided that I will try a small project to see if I really enjoy woodwork or if its just in my head. I saw the plan for a saw-horse here **will post link in my own reply as that will be my 4th post so I can insert link** (if anyone thinks I should try a simpler project then please speak up) here is the list of tools I need to buy, I will try the pound shops first then ebay then B&Q. Timber will be B&Q.
Bevel
Protractor
Chisel (Any particular ones?)
Nails
Saw (what one/type/tpi)
Anything else?

Many thanks

HLA91

 

[HLA91]

http://www.buildeazy.com/workshop/sawhorse-1.html

 

[marcros]

best start you can make is to avoid b and q! Particularly for timber. I dont know where you are exactly, but a timber merchant will have far better softwood and probably cost less.

Tool wise, you will probably get far better used tools than from b and q (with the exception of a saw). The pound shop is likely to put you off for good! I would buy a saw new- a hardpoint from b and q will do the job nicely and not be expensive. dont be obsessed with the tpi and length- the ones on the shelf will all be similar. I bought the cheapest one available in homebase one day when I needed to fit something in the car. It worked fine for a reasonable amount of time- certainly beyond making a sawhorse.

 

[HLA91]

Ok thanks, I just looked at a bevel (B&Q had none) on eBay but there are soo many with different handles and lengths and prices anything I need to look out for or any old one will do? Any chisel as well?

 

[marcros]

something around an inch would be what i would go for. 3/4" would do. the problem is that you will also need the means of sharpening it and suddenly for a simple job you need to acquire some kit. Marples or Stanley for example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANLEY-1-BEV ... 500wt_1277 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/stanley-chise ... 500wt_1277

at least the latter seller maintains they are sharp. You should get your saw horse done before it needs a re-sharpen!

The other disappointment you may have is the need to buy more timber than you need- probably an 8ft length of the 6 x 2 for the top and a sheet of ply, unless you can source some offcuts. Hopefully you can get all 4 legs out of one length.

 

[neilyweely]

HLA

Welcome to the forum.

As far as tools as concerned I have bought every tool I own (thousands of the bluddy things) with the exception of about 5 or 6 power tools, second hand from auctions and ebay. I have been bitten a few times, but on the whole I have been careful and lucky. I now own a collection I would not swap for anyone elses. It is, of course, tailored to my own needs. So my advice would be to start with car boot sales, looking for old (I know old does not = good, but in my experience more old tools are OK than are poor) but not too damaged chisels, squares and mallets. You can be fairly confident that they will be of reasonable quality. The chisels are fairly easy to sharpen yourself, and you will need to practice this in order to keep them sharp anyway. General opinion is to pick a sharpening technique and stick to it for 6 months. Saw sharpening is a whole different kettle of fish, so I would advocate your buying a new one. A standard rip pattern and a tenon saw for starters (look em up). I would think you could get five or six chisels, a square and a mallet, and then 2 new saws for under £20. Someone will point out that an old square may not be square, but a new one may not be either, unless you are prepared to spend more money than I. I have a few cra**y new rules and levels etc.

There are plenty of folk here more qualified to give good advice than I, so hang about a bit and pick brains when you can. You'll soon get the hang of it. If possible try and get an invite to a local members 'shop and you will learn more in a few hours than you could ever imagine. Most folk of this 'parish' are only too willing to help. If you are ever near Bedford you are welcome to pop by mine and learn very little. But hey, it'll be a gas!

HTH

Neil

 

[MickCheese]

I can advise you on a saw. Go to Wickes and get one of their hardpoint 7tpi 22" crosscut saws. Don't get the cheapest I think the one I have at the moment cost less than £10 and is very sharp.

You cannot cut a straight line with a blunt saw.

Mick

 

[HLA91]

Sorry my nearest Wickes is Chester so a bit too far. Does this one look ok http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/handtool...ols/saws/B-and-Q-Toolbox-Saw-14-inch-11247853 although I think I may exceed neilyweely's everyhting for £20 estimate.

 

[MickCheese]

I find those short saws quite difficult to use but then I am no hand tool expert.

One like this would be a good choice

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-fineline-handsaws-prod481019/

Mick

 

[HLA91]

That one looks nice just a shame about the postage, I was in b&q earlier and they have Stanley 7tpi heavy duty saw 500mm £9.99 bogof so fiver each and my old man might want the other one. http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/handtool...eavy-Duty-20-Saw-7TPI-12207542?skuId=12738249. I looked for a bevel as well but they don't do any so eBay it is. I also looked on screwfix (depot nearby ) and found this http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-saw-11-tpi-22/81735#product_additional_details_container


EDIT: Just saw this http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-carpenters-tool-kit-15pcs/57232# which contains everything I was looking for. Should I just pick this up save buying things individually?
Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2

 

[neilyweely]

In my experience kits like the forge steel one will almost certainly prove to be a waste of money. Buy as you need, not kits, also the quality of the forge steel 'steel' will likely be questionable.

Yer man is right, the wickes hardpoint is good, but so will the stanley be. However the chisels will be harder to acquire a decent set. Maybe the for sale section here?

HTH

Neil

 

[Ian down london way]

i wouldn't poo-poo the kit too quickly. Without doubt, the quality of the metal will be realtively poor (pound shop / very cheap screw drivers are a waist, the heads bend). However I think the issue here is the trade-off of time vs doing something. If you have lots of time, and like mooching around car boot sales or auctions, then fine, go down that root. If you want to try an activity out, see how it feels, kits are fine. They are 'cost-effective' which means relatively low quality, so don't expect the tools to last long. If you do like the feel of it, you will want to upgrade most of the items within 6 months - but at least you have a nice box there.

 

[HLA91]

Well thinking away from the set I have come up with this shopping list
Stanley 11 TPI 20" >Here<
Bevel >Here<
Stanley Chisel >Here<
Total: £20.92
Any opinions on those tools? For the saw I also liked the look of >Here<

 

[JakeS]

If you want to try an activity out, see how it feels, kits are fine. They are 'cost-effective' which means relatively low quality, so don't expect the tools to last long.

While this isn't necessarily a bad piece of advice, one has to bear in mind that while the old "bad workman blames his tools" is often true, it is also true that poor-quality tools will sometimes limit the results you can get and how easy they are to use. If you feel that a kit offers decent enough value for money and you're willing to deal with potential issues, just bear in mind if you have problems with anything that it might actually just be down to the tools.

An example from personal experience: doing woodwork classes at school and coming home and trying the stuff I'd learned with my dad's limited tools when I was young, I got almost completely put off hand planing. I bought a cheap plane a year or so ago and tried again, and again was nearly put off completely. After a bit of fettling it became passable and buoyed with confidence I asked around on here, and a nice second-hand Record (at a small fraction of the cost of a quality brand new plane) properly set up makes it actually fun to clean up rough sawn wood.

(I'm not suggesting that everyone should go out and buy top-quality 'luxury-brand' tools from Clifton or Lie-Nielsen or whoever - far from it - just that it's worth taking the time to choose and source tools that are known to be decent.)

 

[Elapid]

I use this handsaw http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/handtools-st ... aw-9284844 I have the red one and the green one. I got them when they were 2 for a tenner and have used them quite heavily but they are still as sharp and when I bought them.

 

[neilyweely]

i wouldn't poo-poo the kit too quickly

I am just finishing renovating a very nice property. We have used oak throughout. Last week I was finishing the last few details and realised I had forgotten my chisels. (My users are a set of 5001 stanleys bought for a fiver from a car boot). The client declared he had a new set of chisels, which were duly presented to me. A set of 4 or 5 Forge Steel chisels. I spent 5 minutes sharpening the one inch on the belt sander only to find it would not take a decent edge, and what limited sharpness I did manage to get was quickly blunted after 4 or 5 minutes of working the oak. So, I am afraid I am going to poo-poo this oarticular kit. There are, of course, some decent chisels in kits out there, but I do think you get what you pay for to a great extent. On the other hand you can EASILY find old chisels at about any car-boot or jumble sale etc, with a good percentage of them being at least better quality than the cheap tat I was witness to last week. They were simply not up to the job.

Just my opinion, but based on a recent experience. Of course I may have been unfortunate enough to have got a bad example of a generally good chisel, but I do doubt this. Perhaps there is someone out there who uses Forge Steel chisels at work for something other than paint stripping and they would like to correct me! :roll:

As far as the other kit you mention, HLA, the saw will probly be fairly good, a medium-ish tooth per inch (tpi) which means it will adequately perform most tasks and the chisels seem to get a fairly good set of reviews. I do think that if stanley were able to produce a set of chisels for the same price as the forge steel ones, of quality steel, and still have profit left in it, they would. They are in a fairly good position market wise to have word get round fairly quick, so I would imagine they would sell loads of 'em.

Just looked on ebay and theres these, with 20 mins left.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-x-vinta...lectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item3a7961407f

Or these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-MARPL...lectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item4abb5c9528

HTH

Neil

 

[Ian down london way]

I do agree about how poor tools can put one off, and I think you example of a hand plane is dead right, a bad one can be not only off putting, but hard work, much up wood, and indeed can even be somewhat dangerous.

However, given this project (and the absence of a hand plane in the set) I'd not worry too much about that.

(I have two hand planes I really enjoy using, one long base (jack-ish) place which was bought second hand (but I did spend 2 days and a couple of hundred pounds attending a course on refurbishing second hand tools) and a wonderful LN bronze plane - both, in their own ways, things of beauty).

 

[Ian down london way]

There is the world of difference between a saw horse / bench (soft wood), and renovating with oak though (very hard wood).

 

[JakeS]

However, given this project (and the absence of a hand plane in the set) I'd not worry too much about that.

There's a block plane - and maybe I'm just cynical, but I would expect it to be pretty useless!

Looking at the set linked to before again, I might suggest this one by the same people instead:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-c ... 1324126933

You miss out on the block plane and the tenon saw; instead, you get a rafter square (personally I find mine endlessly useful), some sandpaper (probably crappy glasspaper, but you never know) and a surform 'plane' (much more likely to be a usable tool than the block plane of the other kit, in my experience, and more likely to be useful shaping up the bevels on the sawhorse project). As a bonus, you also save four quid!

You'd need to get at least one saw on top of that, but there have been a few links to low-cost options provided in this thread. I can't comment myself 'cause I still don't get on with push-saws and use almost exclusively Japanese saws, which I was overjoyed to discover existed!





(I thought of this thread as I was out on the drive fixing my car heater fan this evening, as I was using tools from a general-purpose toolkit comprising the usual screwdrivers, pliers, clippers, hammer, level and so on that I got from Sainsbury's for (IIRC) £9.99 when I first left my parent's house. I still use it pretty much every week; I've more or less given up on the ratchet screwdriver that came with it, but the rest of the tools in there are excellent.)

 

[HLA91]

I missed that other kit thanks for that. In regards to a saw I know most that have been mentioned in this thread would be sufficient but for the little cuts I will be doing would a Tenon be more appropriate or are they more for even more detailed work?