Wadkin people, can I pick your brains pls.

[SemiSkilled]

I have recently bought a Wadkin 10"AGS,

I'd like to use a dado saw, in the user instructions it shows a knurled ring to lock the dado saw onto the arbour, which takes the place of the nut.

does any one know the dimensions of this ring ? if I'm going to make it I'll get it as near to the original as I can.

TIA.

Lee.

 

[misterfish]

Even mention of the 'd' word can send some members of the forum into apoplexy! So, obviously, use caution when doing anything with a dado blade - stand out of the line of cutting, guard the blade as much as possible and keep your hands clear. As Norm would say 'be sure to read, understand and follow all the safety instructions ... Although dado is considered as the 'American' word for 'trenching' by some, it is interesting (?) that Wadkin use the term for their machinery.

Modern tablesaws with braking should not be used with stacked dado sets as the inertia of the weight of the blades being rapidly stopped could be enough to unscrew either the nut or knurled ring and you can end up with whirling blades ejected across the workshop.

I've got a Wadkin 10BRT which is basically a metric version of the 10AGS and has a 20mm arbor.

Firstly you are going to need a different insert for the table - I make my own from 18mm ply. I used the original metal to make an MDF master - cut out roughly on the band saw and then finished with a bearing guided trimming router bit. You can then manually cut a wide slot for the blade or raise the blade from below the table up through the new inset - be careful and hold the plate in place with a push stick - do it slowly and you should be OK.

I have a Freud stacked dado set that I bought directly from Freud at one of the Axminster shows and although it doesn't get a huge amount of use I am pleased with the results I have got.

You have no doubt seen these used on programs such as the New Yankee Workshop - if not, you can PM me and I 'may. be able to find a copy of the 'Tablesaw 101' episodes.

The only time I have heard of the 'knurled ring' in place of the normal nut is in one of the Wadkin instuction booklets. As far as I know all dado users just use the standard nut on the arbor. Obviously it depends on the length of your arbor (if I'm not being too personal!). Basically you've got to allow for the extra width of the stacked blades. The maximum cutting width is about 18mm. You must always have the two outer blades in position. Also you do not usually use the standard outer blade support flange.

Be prepared for the fact that the saw wil roar when the dado set is in place and running.

I also have a Dewalt radial arm saw with a stacked dado set and this uses the same arrangement of no outer flange and the standard nut.

I'd do some pictures for you but my camera is playing up and needs to be replaced.

Just ask if you want any more info.

Misterfish

 

[Digit]

And of course illegal within the UK, and EU?
Normal procedure, somebody uses an unlicensed gun to kill some one so ban licencened guns, somebody mangles their hand with a dado cutter, so ban dado cutters.
Make sure nobody else uses the set up.

Roy.

 

[SemiSkilled]

Thanks for the replies,

Yep, a 20mm wide, TC tipped death star spinning at 2500+rpm is enough to scare anyone a bit :shock:

But I want to build some decent jigs with built in guarding arrangements to first build some workshop storage and a bench.

I bought the saw because it'll take a dado head ( Wadkin's words)
and it's a proper saw with mitre slots both sides of the blade, a good fence and it was £225. ( my mate got one for free, but then he's a jammy one )

I thought all new saws have a short arbour and wont take D/H but looking at a Felder saw in the showroom ( only looking ) an option is a long arbour for a D/H.

There will only be me using the saw and I don't think it's illegal in my garage

I thought most people will just use the nut but I thought I'd make a ring to start off in the right direction.

Lee.

 

[Digit]

I think the law only applies to employee use, what we do ourselves is our business, (at the moment).

Roy.

 

[DaveL]

Hi Lee,

I have a Wadkin 10"AGS, great bit of kit, if you look here then you will find my motor changing on the forum.

If you look here you will find PDFs of the Wadkin manuals, AGS OLD is the one you need. It does show a special nut for a dado head, I don't have one, I would guess that it is the diameter of the front flange and the thickness of the nut normally used. The arbour on mine is long enough to use a dado head for all but the whole stack on there.

 

[SemiSkilled]

DaveL

Thanks for the link, I found the AGS OLD before I bought the saw, very handy.

I have a 4kw three phase converter I use for the 3 ph stuff, I also have a nice, new in the box ABB 3Hp single phase motor sitting in my "stores" I'll take a look at your thread.

As I was looking at that manual tonight, the best thing is to measure the front saw flange dia and as you say, the thickness of the nut.

I wonder why they went for the knurled ring ? quick change ? hand tight only, on the stack ?

The Freud 8" D/H is the one I was looking at.

Finger plate from 18mm ply, got some I'll have a go.

Lee.

 

[DaveL]

Lee,

I think if I was making a dado nut then I would knurl the edge for doing it up but put 2 or 4 holes to allow a C spanner to undo it with, the nut does tighten in use. Its the Freud 8" head that I have, don't use it much but when I have lots of grooves or rebates to cut its very quick to do the job.

I would of loved an inverter but the cost was a lot more than doing the motor swap.

I have made inserts from ply and some of the low friction plastic from Axminster, not used this on the saw yet as the ply is still holding up.

How about a few pictures? What is the machine number of yours?

 

[SemiSkilled]

DaveL

I'll get some photos up soon, I can feel a, tool shopping therapy session coming on, and there's a bank holiday this week.

Lee.

 

[misterfish]

These may be of interest

http://blog.woodsmithstorespecials.com/ ... Blades.pdf

http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.uk/D ... ?tabid=170

Misterfish

 

[OPJ]

I think the law only applies to employee use, what we do ourselves is our business, (at the moment).

Roy.

You're almost right. They're not illegal for a someone to operate in the home workshop where work is not being produced for commercial purposes. It's like PPE equipment; employers are only required to supply it. It is up to you whether you take the necessary precautions and wear a mask, goggles, ear defenders, etc.

I have seen - and used - dado heads in a radial arm saw, in a professional workshop. HSE are okay with, provided all necessary precautions and taken in and put in to practice. I've not seen anyone use one in a circular saw though...

You'd think it would be illegal because of the "blade's" breaking time, but the 10 second-rule only applies to machinery manufactured after a certain date (1970-something, I think?). Either that, or the company I recently left really were operating under some serious violations towards Health and Safety! :?

 

[SemiSkilled]

MrFish

Thanks for digging those links up.

Lee.

 

[BradNaylor]

You'd think it would be illegal because of the "blade's" breaking time, but the 10 second-rule only applies to machinery manufactured after a certain date (1970-something, I think?). Either that, or the company I recently left really were operating under some serious violations towards Health and Safety! :?

The 10 second rule applies to all machinery irrespective of when it was manufactured. Old machines should have been fitted with braking systems a couple of years ago. Your estwhile employers are certainly in braech of the law. Did you leave on good terms? :wink:

Incidentally, the Sawstop system is not a replacement for the 10 second rule. To comply with European standards the blade would have to come to a stop within 10 seconds when the machine is turned off in normal use, not when the emergency stop mechanism is activated.

The reason for the 10 second rule is nothing to do with getting fingers caught in a blade while the machine is in use, it is because research found that a high number of accidents occurred after a machine was turned off, but when the blade or cutter block was still spinning.

A typical example would be a spindle moulder. On an old model the block could keep spinning for several minutes after the machine was turned off. Imagine if you absent-mindedly went to change the cutter after turning off the machine and going for a pee.

On my old Wadkin AGS table saw the blade used to spin for a good minute after the red button was pressed. This is the reason for the 10 second rule.

That Sawstop feature would have saved my thumb, though! So I think its a good idea.

Cheers
Dan

 

[superunknown]

I would love to see some pictures, I have a AGS from 1960, last year I completely re-built it, new motor and respray everything. Its a great saw.

 

[SemiSkilled]

Pictures of my saw

I just put the wings back on, stripped the fence down, adjusted it and put a plug on it (not the fence, the cable)

 

[misterfish]

On my old Wadkin AGS table saw the blade used to spin for a good minute after the red button was pressed. This is the reason for the 10 second rule.

I've just been out to time my tablesaw - a Wadkin 10BRT (the metric version of the AGS) - and it takes 8 seconds for the 10 inch blade to stop after hitting the red button. A minute seems an awful long time. I don't know if the fact that mine is single phase makes any difference to the run down time.

A few of pictures of my saw. (When I was setting the workshop up - a few years ago. It is now not so clean and tidy!)

I also timed the blade stopping time of my old DW1251 RAS (also single phase) and that was also 8 seconds. I remember reading some years ago that if the RAS blade was slow to stop it usually meant the bearings were wearing.

Misterfish

 

[ciscoeuk]

nice workshop, me jelous!

ric

 

[Benchwayze]

And of course illegal within the UK, and EU?
Normal procedure, somebody uses an unlicensed gun to kill some one so ban licencened guns, somebody mangles their hand with a dado cutter, so ban dado cutters.
Make sure nobody else uses the set up.

Roy.

Someone jumps off Beachy Head. Can't have that happening again. Send in the JCB's!

I wish I could fit a dado to my Coronet Major.. (Well I can actually, I just don't think the saw table is big enough for most sections of timber I'd like to dado and dado cutters machine good tenons I believe.)

 

[Benchwayze]

I take it then, that ten seconds stopping time, is short enough? I think it takes 'rather less' than 10 seconds to mangle your hand on a circular saw. Thus I can't see the point of these 'electrical brakes'.

Surely the biggest sin is leaving the saw running and unattended.

A few years ago I had a saw with an electrical brake. Every time the brake applied the saw moved out of position and near shook itself to pieces. I had to double up on split washers under the nuts, to stop the guard shaking itself loose and dropping onto the moving blade.

I suppose I could have got around the brake, but instead I got rid of the saw.
:x

 

[Jake]

I take it then, that ten seconds stopping time, is short enough? I think it takes 'rather less' than 10 seconds to mangle your hand on a circular saw. Thus I can't see the point of these 'electrical brakes'.

No noise, spinning blade.