Very very cross!

[krashbandikoot]

<Engage rant mode>

OK, so the other day my bike was playing up and losing power so today I took a day out to sort it out once and for all.

As a mechanic I know this is a huge sin but I've never changed or cleaned the air filter in the 7 years I've own the old girl and I had a feeling I knew what the problem was, a blocked air filter. Well to be fair she does sit in a workshop where a lot of saw dust is created and I have been running her in there so it's no great surprise the air filter became clogged.

Now, not having a normal bike, removing the air filter also means taking off the carbs which is a real pain in the bum at the best of times. What should be a reasonably easy job taking only 10 minutes on most bikes, with mine it's major surgery. So with the carbs off and the air filter out I set about cleaning it using the old tried, tested and successful soaking it in petrol trick because it's a sponge not a paper filter.

While it was soaking, (here comes the rant), I decided to check out the electrical system to make sure all was well there. Now again my bike seems "special" because instead of having your every coils leading to a a double or single coil, it's got 3 coil packs, one for each cylinder. I discovered to my horror that one of the coil packs HT lead tags had broken so no wonder it was running off, it must have been arcing across the gap which believe it or not would reduce the voltage going to the spark plug by a good 75%

Being too lazy to pop over to the garage, (some 50 miles away from my home), I rang Triumph to see if they had a HT lead in stock. "Sorry no" came the reply, "We don't sell single HT leads anyway, they come in packs of 3 at a price of £98 including the VAT"

OK, so do you sell the HT tags?

No only complete leads, would you like me to order you some?

No was my reply. OK so I'll nip to a local motor factors for a HT tag for the coil only to be told that now all HT leads are sold in sets!

Off I went to an auto electrician to try and source the tags but again was told the same thing.

It seems that the manufactures have decided for us all that we can no longer make up our own HT leads, we have to buy a pack of them from the dealer or motor factor at a huge cost. All I needed was a tiny little tag which clips onto the coil pin, there's nothing wrong with the HT lead as such, it's a simple, little brass tag that broke. I've bought them before for about 40 pence each but now it seems I have to trash a decent HT lead for this 40p tag and shell out £100 for a new set of leads.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE???

Surely a mechanic is still a mechanic? Oh sorry, I forgot it's progression! Instead of spending a few pence and doing the work yourself now you have to have stuff dealer/garage fitted and it's only part off, new part on. What's happened to the days where things were fixed and not replaced?

Anyway I sorted it, hammering the broken bit of tag flat I bent it into shape and managed to jam it into the recess so it's got direct contact with the pin. So with the old girl back together she's running better than ever and doesn't need much choke to get her to rev. No longer does she stutter when revved, she'll pick up straight away.

But still how can a £100 bill be justified for a 40p brass tag? In my eyes it can't but I'm sure there's a few out there, (not this particular forum but out there as in out there in the big wide world), who'll pay that and pay the fitting bill without batting an eyelid.

 

[marcros]

I don't know anything about these but ht lead terminal brings up plenty of hits on eBay.

 

[Stu_2]

Yep, world's gone mad, because we put up with this nonsense.

Wife's got a Peugeot and the steering pump wobbled due to a perished rubber damper. Went to Allparts as usual, to be told Peugeot don't supply the rubber damper. I'm now assuming I will have to buy the bracket, but not the end of the world as it's a small bracket that attaches to the pump with 2 bolts. Wrong. They don't sell that either. They expect us to buy a complete steering pump, with said bracket attached to it, for £400. WTF!

Bloke at AllParts thought this must be a mistake and made a few enquiries, but it was no use. Peugeot will not supply the bracket on it's own.

That is why I will never ever own another Peugeot again.

Cheers
Stu

 

[tool-me-up]

no longer 40p but still available http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=ht+lead+brass&_sop=15

 

[RogerP]

Most (all?) good UK car breakers now seem to be linked into a computerised network.

http://www.breakeryard.com/

... I don't suppose prices are what they were in the old days of climbing over wrecks, spanners in hand, to get the bit you wanted - but nevertheless I expect there are good savings to be made.

 

[AndyT]

I think it's pretty clear what is going on and it's not good! Presumably there is some sort of obligation on manufacturers to make spare parts available, but silence on the details. Manufacturers could do the decent thing and stock thousands of small components but that would cost them lots and bring minimum income. So the accountants have decided to stock a smaller number of expensive assemblies. More profit when they sell one.
Garages join in, as they will get more profit by selling you a £100 set than a 40p connector.

This can all happen, largely unseen, since so few of us would even attempt a car repair, so the local shop selling the little bits has disappeared as well.

It's the same with white goods. Lots of people think they are covered by extended guarantees but get a nasty shock when the parts are so expensive that their machine is 'beyond economic repair' and they get nothing. The cheapest washing machines are close to being one big sealed assembly inside a box.

Have a read of this illuminating article

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/...achine-sealed-tubs-a-why-you-should-care.html

 

[Grahamshed]

Business men control the world, not politicians

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Cameron & Co. business men?

I wish!! :lol:

 

[markturner]

I think I am more confident with them than the bulgy eyed adenoidal marxist lunatic alternative

 

[NickWelford]

I think I am more confident with them than the bulgy eyed adenoidal marxist lunatic alternative

Nicely put.

 

[MMUK]

Personally, I prefer to convert HT & Coil packs to stick coils. Much more reliable and efficient.

 

[krashbandikoot]

Thanks for the Ebay links guys, I know they can still be got but that really wasn't the point of my post.

The point was I can no longer go into a SHOP and buy these things and I did say I was too lazy to pop over to the garage where we have trays full of these things which we order in by the 1,000. Yes looking back it would have been quicker and easier but the fact I can't just walk into a motor factors shop or an auto electricians and buy the electrical component I need off the shelf say's a lot.

And yes I know these bullet tags are no longer 40p each, that's what we charge for them when we use them :wink: they're £1.09 for 10 off Ebay or 8p each if you buy them by the 1,000

But the point is this, instead of being able to go out there, walk into a shop and buy what I need I can't! I have to order it on line and wait 2 or 3 days for delivery.

We bought a new TV about a year back and after 2 or 3 months it went bang on the transformer. So we sent it back to be fixed only to be told that a new transformer can't be sourced. The TV was less than a year old as a model and only a couple of months old to us but parts weren't available so it had to be replaced.

This is what I'm getting at, all this stuff which breaks, some of it new, some of it old, can't be fixed any more it has to be replaced. The majority of our customers want a new part fitting rather than the old part repairing which to me is wrong. OK so a lot of the motor trade electrical stuff is now exchange unit - Steering racks, alternators, starter motors, water pumps and the like so it does go off for reconditioning but the majority of stuff gets thrown into the bin then probably goes into land fill which is doing us no good what so ever.

This sort of attitude and mentality is doing people out of a job, mechanics are now just fitters, secretaries are now word processing packages, accountants have become spread sheets, the wood worker who made things by hand has become the CNC machine, the telephone receptionist has become the automated "Press 1 for this department, press 2 for that" and it is complete and utter madness.

I really don't like the world we live in these days, it's too clinical and automated, the human touch has gone from a lot of our lives and is slowly being replaced by a machine. Yes machines are useful when it comes to saving time. The random orbital sander will always offer a quicker finish than hand sanding but will it offer a better finish? That's debatable but isn't my point. My point is very clear, we as humans are being put out to grass because of machines that were designed to give us more time to do other things, instead they're replacing us and I think this is the key as to why I can't walk into a shop and buy exactly what I need there and then.

Anyway, work time

 

[krashbandikoot]

Personally, I prefer to convert HT & Coil packs to stick coils. Much more reliable and efficient.

How do you do that?

 

[tekno.mage]

This is what I'm getting at, all this stuff which breaks, some of it new, some of it old, can't be fixed any more it has to be replaced. The majority of our customers want a new part fitting rather than the old part repairing which to me is wrong. OK so a lot of the motor trade electrical stuff is now exchange unit - Steering racks, alternators, starter motors, water pumps and the like so it does go off for reconditioning but the majority of stuff gets thrown into the bin then probably goes into land fill which is doing us no good what so ever.

This sort of attitude and mentality is doing people out of a job, mechanics are now just fitters, secretaries are now word processing packages, accountants have become spread sheets, the wood worker who made things by hand has become the CNC machine, the telephone receptionist has become the automated "Press 1 for this department, press 2 for that" and it is complete and utter madness.

I really don't like the world we live in these days, it's too clinical and automated, the human touch has gone from a lot of our lives and is slowly being replaced by a machine. Yes machines are useful when it comes to saving time. The random orbital sander will always offer a quicker finish than hand sanding but will it offer a better finish? That's debatable but isn't my point. My point is very clear, we as humans are being put out to grass because of machines that were designed to give us more time to do other things, instead they're replacing us and I think this is the key as to why I can't walk into a shop and buy exactly what I need there and then.

+++++++1

And the same businesses/politicians that allow this to happen are still paying lip-service to the green agenda by putting "green" taxes/price-rises on things that benefit their cronies, still hand-wringing about the lack of job opportunities for the young - whilst failing to understand (or deliberately ignoring) that repairing something is more "green" than manufacturing a new one, and that making things repairable creates jobs for the repair people!

 

[MMUK]

Personally, I prefer to convert HT & Coil packs to stick coils. Much more reliable and efficient.

How do you do that?

Basically get a set of stick coils for anything between £30 and £80 second hand (you'd be amazed how many unused sets can be found taken off race bikes). Modify the loom that comes with them to suit your own setup and fit them.

What Trumpet do you have? You may find that the sticks from the ST1050 are a direct fit in terms of length. All you need to do then is remove the loom wrap, cut the wires to the appropriate length and connect them (the right way round) to the wires that fit into each coil pack. IIRC, Triumph still use green as the earth. In any case, each stick coil connector will have one wire the same colour as the others which will be the earth.

Just make sure you connect each stick coil loom to the correct OEM coil pack supply :wink: It's a good idea to mark them up 1, 2 and 3 :mrgreen:

Any probs, just drop me a PM and I'll rig up a diagram for you.


For anyone else, be aware that if you have a 4cyl bike with only two coil packs, some modification will be required to the ECU, otherwise each coil will only receive 6v instead of 12v.

 

[MickCheese]

I have just bought my first Triumph ever but been riding bikes for nearly 40 years. Picked it up last Friday.

Bought a Tiger Sport 1050, still running it in. The last four bikes were Honda Fireblades but my neck and wrists were taking a bit of bettering on those.

The Triumph feels fantastic.

But back to the point, not many dealers employ mechanics just fitters.

I am proud to own a British bike finally, (actually it was made in Taiwan)!

Mick

 

[JustBen]

I once had a friend who was a 'mechanic' for a main dealer.

He was very good at replacing parts but had no idea how an engine worked!
Madness.

 

[mailee]

I am very pleased I got out of the motor trade when I did. I used to be a mechanic before the advent of 'electronics on them' Call me old fashioned but electronics were a bad idea for vehicles. If something goes wrong now the first thing you reach for is a laptop! :roll: Then run through a bunch of codes which may or may not indicate where the fault lies and replace the part at great expense. I know exactly what you mean about getting to the air filter on modern bikes, my friend had a Triumph Daytona and it was a major job to take out the plugs! :shock: I went for a good old fashioned 'V' twin that I can work on myself easily. Give me good old fashioned nuts and bolts any day. :wink:

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Thanks for the Ebay links guys, I know they can still be got but that really wasn't the point of my post.

The point was I can no longer go into a SHOP and buy these things and I did say I was too lazy to pop over to the garage where we have trays full of these things which we order in by the 1,000. Yes looking back it would have been quicker and easier but the fact I can't just walk into a motor factors shop or an auto electricians and buy the electrical component I need off the shelf say's a lot.

And yes I know these bullet tags are no longer 40p each, that's what we charge for them when we use them :wink: they're £1.09 for 10 off Ebay or 8p each if you buy them by the 1,000

But the point is this, instead of being able to go out there, walk into a shop and buy what I need I can't! I have to order it on line and wait 2 or 3 days for delivery.

We bought a new TV about a year back and after 2 or 3 months it went bang on the transformer. So we sent it back to be fixed only to be told that a new transformer can't be sourced. The TV was less than a year old as a model and only a couple of months old to us but parts weren't available so it had to be replaced.

This is what I'm getting at, all this stuff which breaks, some of it new, some of it old, can't be fixed any more it has to be replaced. The majority of our customers want a new part fitting rather than the old part repairing which to me is wrong. OK so a lot of the motor trade electrical stuff is now exchange unit - Steering racks, alternators, starter motors, water pumps and the like so it does go off for reconditioning but the majority of stuff gets thrown into the bin then probably goes into land fill which is doing us no good what so ever.

This sort of attitude and mentality is doing people out of a job, mechanics are now just fitters, secretaries are now word processing packages, accountants have become spread sheets, the wood worker who made things by hand has become the CNC machine, the telephone receptionist has become the automated "Press 1 for this department, press 2 for that" and it is complete and utter madness.

I really don't like the world we live in these days, it's too clinical and automated, the human touch has gone from a lot of our lives and is slowly being replaced by a machine. Yes machines are useful when it comes to saving time. The random orbital sander will always offer a quicker finish than hand sanding but will it offer a better finish? That's debatable but isn't my point. My point is very clear, we as humans are being put out to grass because of machines that were designed to give us more time to do other things, instead they're replacing us and I think this is the key as to why I can't walk into a shop and buy exactly what I need there and then.

Anyway, work time

I (seriously) recommend you read Robert Pirsig's "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance". It's a cracking read and directly addresses the issues you rightly raise

 

[krashbandikoot]

Basically get a set of stick coils for anything between £30 and £80 second hand (you'd be amazed how many unused sets can be found taken off race bikes). Modify the loom that comes with them to suit your own setup and fit them.

What Trumpet do you have? You may find that the sticks from the ST1050 are a direct fit in terms of length. All you need to do then is remove the loom wrap, cut the wires to the appropriate length and connect them (the right way round) to the wires that fit into each coil pack. IIRC, Triumph still use green as the earth. In any case, each stick coil connector will have one wire the same colour as the others which will be the earth.

Just make sure you connect each stick coil loom to the correct OEM coil pack supply :wink: It's a good idea to mark them up 1, 2 and 3 :mrgreen:

Any probs, just drop me a PM and I'll rig up a diagram for you.


For anyone else, be aware that if you have a 4cyl bike with only two coil packs, some modification will be required to the ECU, otherwise each coil will only receive 6v instead of 12v.

I may just drop you a PM at some point in time for this diagram, sounds like a good idea given I've got a coil pack for each cylinder anyway.

On a side note to the thread, as the a typical garage owner I'm at this point in time running a bag of droppings which is my own fault really, I haven't run the old girl properly in the last couple of years and really neglected her. I've had to make a new fuel tap out of two bad ones because the one that was on it failed drastically and the No 1 cylinder HT lead finally gave up the ghost as the connector inside of the cap broke <sigh>

Anyway, a new one ordered for £27 should put that right. When I went out on her, initially she flew but after 600 yards or so she was struggling suggesting fuel starvation. The old tap was just dribbling fuel, the one I've cobbled together dumps fuel at the rate of about a 3rd of gallon a minute, it takes only 2 or 3 minutes to fill a 1 gallon can whereas the other one was taking about 10 minutes.

And to answer your question it's a Trident Sprint 900, one of the last off the line before they quit making them in '99

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a follow up to the posts above, please! Don't get me started about the motor trade!!! Ooops! Too late!!

I own a bike garage or two in my local area and on occasion we'll get customers who'll ask us to look at their cars.

I recently had a right go at a "mechanic" who changed the starter motor on my wife's car as he told me they'd has to send the new starter motor I'd supplied to an auto electrician to "change the solenoid" because it was the wrong one!! At the time the bike wasn't on the road and I only had my BMW which wasn't running as it should have. Normally I'd have plugged it into my laptop but one of my son's broke it!

Anyway, went out the car and it wouldn't start which was really odd. She always starts 2nd turn of the key!

So we're stuck at home completely isolated and I rang the garage to say I couldn't get in. This "mechanic" went off on a tangent about taking off the battery for 15 mins which struck me as really odd. So I let him run with his "advice" and ignored him.

I got the car going, it was no fuel as the petrol pump pick up strainer had blocked and it had got some dirt into the fins preventing them from spinning. 3 Hours of taking it out, (in the pouring rain, why do vehicles always choose to pack up in the rain???), flushing it and putting it back in the car got going and ran better than before.

So the next day I went to collect the wife's car and I was in no mood to argue with him. He accused me of talking to him like poop, (which I suppose I was), and I challenged him on where he'd learned his trade. He told me at the garage he worked at then went off on a tangent about the immobiliser playing up which was the most likely cause of the problems I was having :shock: :shock:

I'm sorry, but I was pulling engines to bits and putting them back together long before he was a glint in his fathers eye and was trained by a proper mechanic. The first port of call with diagnostics is - Air, fuel, spark. If you have air you're fine, if you have fuel you're fine then you start looking at the spark. He retorted that taking out a spark plug to check for a spark was labour intensive .. WTF??????

He then went off on another tangent about the key being mis-read at which point I stopped him to point out if that was the case then there would be no spark.

Because I had no fuel pressure in the fuel rail, because the plugs were not wet then this pointed to a fueling problem and it's at that point where you start from the bottom and work up, is the pump working? A check with a mechanics stethoscope offered the answer, it wasn't wurring when the key was initially turned indicating it was 1 of 3 things - 1) No petrol, 2) no power so it was a fuse or 3) a blockage.

Then this imbecile, (despite the car being parked in front of him), asked me if I'd got it going! That was it, I lost the plot at this point and invited him for a chat outsider which he declined. Eventually the boss came in and we had words, I wasn't a happy bunny that a years warranty on the starter motor had been invalidated. It turned out the connecting TAG on the starter motor had been changed, (which is common, 9 times out of 10 they're always the wrong tags and it's not a huge job. 2 Minutes to unscrew the old tag and screw in a new one), not the whole solenoid so I was given mis-information. Then to add insult to injury the garage manager told me this mechanic was a problem because he couldn't use and didn't know the terminology for parts to be ordered so getting the right part was a real issue for them.

I once watch this guy remove a whole front axle to drop off an oil sump instead of using a pry bar to push the sump out of the way.

It really irritates me that there are "mechanics" out there working in independent and dealership garages who simply haven't a clue how a car works. Why the hell would I start looking at the immobiliser system when my car won't start? Why would I go chasing rainbows when the fundamental basic is to check the 3 things any engine needs to work - Air, fuel and a spark.

I hate using other garages, but in this instance I had to because I don't have a lift and for the wife's car it needs to be up in the air to change the starter motor due to it being tucked under the car of the engine and gear stick link arms having to be removed. Not a job for a set of ramps.