TV sound question

[dickm]

Probably one for Eric the V., or another forum, but just in case anyone else has ideas, thought it worth posting.
As the years go by, two things seem to be happening - my hearing is getting worse and the sound quality from TV sets also gets worse, possibly faster. Presumably with the intent of ensuring that you buy a new £XXX soundbar to go with your £ZZZ set. Of course, the new set will have a loverly, aesthetically pleasing, pencil thin surround so there's nowhere to put a sensibly sized speaker.
OK, got the rant over, so here's the question. Our TV has terrestrial freeview, but in order to use our comically old-fashioned DVD/Hard disk recorder, we have a second tuner. To solve the sound problem, there seem to be two possibles. One is to run a lead from the headphone socket into the (even older) stereo system. This works, but quality doesn't sound quite right - vague memories of setting up stereo kit suggests that there may be matching problems. The alternative is to use the SCART socket on the TV and take audio from that. Quality seems fine, BUT if trying to watch a programme played back from the hard disk, the audio channel comes over as whatever was on the TV's tuner, not what is coming from the HD.
If noone has useful answers, any suggestions of forums where this sort of thing might be explained to an elderly electronic idiot?

 

[Racers]

I use the headphone output from my TV to feed the HiFi, sound good and works when using the DVD PVR etc

Pete

 

[nev]

You need to take the audio out feed from the TV. That way any source going in will come out to the amplifier.
Do you have a spare scart socket or a pair of phono sockets (usually red and white) at the rear of the TV?
If so use one of these..
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg00 ... dp/AV13609

If you dont have a spare scart you may get away with one of these between the tv and the scart lead..
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg00 ... dp/AV14610

and of course a Phono to phono lead to connect to the amp
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg00 ... dp/AV13877

CPC have free postage for any order over a fiver and sell lots of stuff apart from electronic bits.


EDIT: The volume output of the headphone socket is variable (using the volume control on the tv) whereas the audio out of the phono sockets/ scart socket is fixed at a level suitable for amplification.

If you buy a sound bar you will have the same issue as you do with the TV unless it has multiple audio inputs compatible with your sources and I think you'll find anything new will have only digital optical and hdmi inputs. Unfortunately the market has moved on.

 

[Mike Jordan]

Ive experienced similar problems with tv sound, the answer,or to be more accurate, partial answer, was a sound bar. This made an improvement in a fair percentage of programmes but not all, my problem relates to the insane practice of music being used at the same time as dialogue. This seems to be a modern plague! Even programmes which were previously audible now feature a music sound track which swamps the speech of the actors. There has been considerable comment and even satirical references on Have I Got News and other programmes but the problem continues. I have given up a number of formerly entertaining programmes commencing some time back with Silent Witness, an unrealistic but viewable piece of nonsense originally but totally useless when the actors words are inaudible. Another cop show reached an all time low when the great detective and his side kick were down a pit in the north east together with a dead miner, the murderer, and a full orchestra fiddling away!
I am living in hope that some future government will scrap the licence fee and turn the BBC into a self financing operation, you only need to look at the numbers of commentators and experts who are sent out at the slightest excuse to cover stories in other countries to realise that over staffing is rife. Yes I did make complains but without acknowledgement , the website wanted huge levels of information before allowing me to make a submission, I was then informed that my post code did not exist. In desperation I entered the BBCs own Bristol post code BS8 2LR. Apparently that didn't exist either.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I use the headphone output from my TV to feed the HiFi, sound good and works when using the DVD PVR etc.

'Fraid I do the same thing.

On my Panasonic there is a separate set of adjustments for the headphone hole compared to the TV's speakers. Yours might be the same. Worth a quick wander through the menus just in case - bot don't get lost: it took me several hours to get back out to reality last time I did!

Seriously, that thing with the TV tuner always being output is deliberate on the part of TV manufacturers. It's so that you have to buy more stuff (a big complex amplifier thingy). It's infuriating.

 

[Racers]

I do the fine adjustments to the volume with the remote and course adjustments with the stepped attenuator on the preamp.

Pete

 

[defsdoor]

I bought a sound bar. Most of today's thin TVs, by necessity, have the speakers pointing out of the rear. Which is annoying for your neighbours and pretty useless for you looking at the moving picture side.

 

[gwaithcoed]

When I replaced my TV the sound was like two skeletons singing in a biscuit tin. On the advice of one of our members I purchased some "Creative" speakers from Amazon for about £40 and they are fantastic. Just plug them in to the earphone output socket and a power supply

Alan.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You're thinking of Sir Thomas Beecham — 'The sound of a harpsichord – two skeletons copulating on a tin roof in a thunderstorm.'

 

[dickm]

You need to take the audio out feed from the TV. That way any source going in will come out to the amplifier.
Do you have a spare scart socket or a pair of phono sockets (usually red and white) at the rear of the TV?
If so use one of these..
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg00 ... dp/AV13609

If you dont have a spare scart you may get away with one of these between the tv and the scart lead..
http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg00 ... dp/AV14610

Regular customer of CPC (to the extent that I could probably build a house from their weekly catalogues!) but already had SCART plug to mail phono plug leads in my spares box. The TV has only one SCART socket, so have a two scart extender attached, with the various inputs from sat box and DVD coming into one of the sockets and and the SCART to phono in the other. The problem is that when using the DVD, what comes out of the SCART in terms of audio is what the TV's native tuner is doing, irrespective of the fact that its speakers are sending out what has come from the DVD. Puzzling for an OAP of very little brain!

 

[nev]

are you saying you get the sound from the tuner and the dvd at the same time? if so I suspect your scart splitter lead has the audio wires from all sources connected together i.e. its designed to take one source to two screens not two to one as you need.

If not
1.
Does your DVD have an audio out of any kind? Phono pair or spare scart?
Does your amp/ stereo have a spare input?
Could you connect them together and select the different input when DVD sound is required?
2.
A scart switching box with a separate audio out may do the trick, maybe something like..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCART-SWITCH ... 1102966474

 

[Eric The Viking]

Dick, as I said earlier, what you describe is normal behaviour for modern digital TVs, to prevent digital copying through the TV and to force you to buy an audio "receiver" (daft name!). The normal outputs are only from the tuner, unless intended for headphones (or any similar analogue audio out - bit I've not seen any with aux audio out). Both our TVs drive speakers through the headphone sockets.

You might get lucky with analogue out via scart, but on my TV the only scart is intended for input, and the interface isn't complete (electronically) - it is not properly bi-directional.

One slightly technical thought, if you're handy with a soldering iron: I'd expect (but don't know for certain!) that modern headphone drivers are very low impedance, to match most modern headphones as well as they can (they present a low impedance, and mobile device earbuds even lower).

If you use that socket to feed an amp, it's seeing high impedance instead, and will behave as if it's not loaded at all. That might cause clipping, if the level coming out is high (not if it's well designed, but that's hard to ascertain). You might improve matters by putting a pair of, say 100 Ohm resistors between tip-sleeve and ring-sleeve of the plug (could do this at the far end of the cable if there is more space. This will load the driver circuit better, BUT, because the two channels are unbalanced and share a common ground, you are also in effect putting 200 Ohms between the two channels, causing crosstalk. So the stereo image will be narrower and might swing left-right with loud sounds.

In practice, most TV sound would be usefully improved by being mono (long discussuion, but I am not convinced of the value of stereo for broadcast TV). The point being you probably wouldn't notice the image width, even on a very big screen TV. Visual cues overwhelm the brain's audio location perception, and we think dialog comes from the right place on the screen, when it usually doesn't anyway.

FWIW, all dialogue in surround matrices, such as cinema formats is usually mono centre channel only, for a lot of practical reasons, yet you don't hear a chorus of complaints, so I'm not talking out of my behind!

Mucking about with loading resistors on the connecting cabe won't do any harm, but may not make any practical improvement. If you have separate control of the headphone-out volume, you could try sending it at a lower level instead (and turn the amp up more) - should have the same effect, without the crosstalk.

HTH, E.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Sorry for all the typos - typing on a tablet this morning, via my mobile phone's internet connection, as my broadband is down. My fingers evidently don't like it.

 

[MrTeroo]

Why don't you get yourself a used AV Receiver and a set of surround speakers?

Here is an example chosen at random

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Onkyo-TX...422462?hash=item23950ba03e:g:KLgAAOSwH2VaJana

 

[nev]

ETV may well be correct BUT personally I've never seen a half wired scart output on a TV, cables yes, but not TV's but I could well be wrong, my experience is only with mid to high level TV's Panasonic, sony etc.

I think that this is what you have and how it should be connected

or

If that is correct the third cps item in my previous post placed between TV and scart at point X should take the audio out from whatever the source showing on the TV screen. So a phono lead from there to the stereo should work.

It will only not work if, as Eric says, the TV scart output is not fully wired.

 

[dickm]

Thanks, all, especially Nev and ETV. Whatever is next move, this oldie is certainly confused at a higher level! Will have a careful read and think.
Oh, yes the TV was a fairly good Samsung, if that's relevant.