Tricoya for box sash

[LBCarpentry]

Got about 12 original box sash windows to make and just starting to do the drawings for them. Question - has anyone used tricoya to do this before? Once dominoed into box sections I know they will be sturdy enough for sure.

I’m actually trying to think of reasons why it’s wouldnt be a good idea…

One consideration. Is the pocket cover. But I have an idea for this also.

Think it would save considerable time and cost over accoya timber and still has its 50 year guarantee.

Thoughts?

Mad?

 

[johnnyb]

using sheet material has to be a winner maybe try one see how it paints up and operates.

 

[Bristol_Rob]

Sounds risky to me

If the client is paying for the timber why take the risk?

 

[Doug71]

I have never made a window out of it but I'm sure some firms do, I would be happy using it for the inside and outside linings but not sure about the pulley lining?

I did use it for the outside lining on a window I repaired and it worked fine.

I think @Against_The_Grain has made a few sash windows and might have an opinion?

 

[Against_The_Grain]

I think @Against_The_Grain has made a few sash windows and might have an opinion?

Yes, there was a large company in London that was doing it, they were liquidated a couple of years ago now as they went belly-up. If I recall correctly they had a very large amount of callbacks from the sashes jamming solid in the boxes in the summer as while the Accoya dust itself is stable, the binding agent wasn’t and when heated up by the sun they expanded very slightly causing the sashes to be effectively cramped in place, not ideal when you’re trying to ventilate your building in the middle of a heatwave.

Might be different now, all of that was secondhand information from the Accoya representative who at the time made it very clear that it wasn’t suitable for the application, presumably to cover themselves in the event of something like this happening.

 

[johnnyb]

if its the rep he's probably made it up to protect accoya sales but it's simple enough to test.( I'm so cynical)

 

[deema]

The thread is about Tricoya not Accoya, which are different products, the first is a stabilised MDF type material the second is a pickled softwood.
All natural wood moves, so when making stuff this has to be considered in the design. Tricoya states categorically that it’s stable and is designed for external use. It’s going to be painted / protected from the weather so I can’t see any reason why it’s not a good idea. Let’s put it this way, I’d use it.

 

[Jacob]

Redwood is good but they'd only last 100 years or so.

 

[Solicitus]

Or longer. I refurbished mine (34 sashes) during lockdown. House was built 1890, the original single glazed windows have been repaired from time to time but still very sound. No doubt the next owner will rip them out and "upgrade" them with uvpc.

 

[rogxwhit]

Redwood is good but they'd only last 100 years or so.

Have you made external joinery from redwood that's lasted 100 yrs Jacob?

 

[Jacob]

Have you made external joinery from redwood that's lasted 100 yrs Jacob?

Feels like it! But I've had hands on with a lot of it and older too.

 

[rogxwhit]

Feels like it! But I've had hands on with a lot of it and older too.

My point is that the Victorians had access to wood from old growth forests having larger trees and could exclude sapwood. Sapwood is now prevalent in commercially available redwood that comes from smaller trees grown on rotation and is known to have poor durability. The Victorians also used lead-based compounds in the joints and in finishes that were toxic to fungi (rot).

Having said that I know of redwood windows that I made 40 yrs ago that are still in good nick, but I made the sills from durable hardwood, treated the joints with preservative before assembly, and the paint's been maintained ...

 

[Jacob]

My point is that the Victorians had access to wood from old growth forests having larger trees and could exclude sapwood. Sapwood is now prevalent in commercially available redwood that comes from smaller trees grown on rotation and is known to have poor durability. The Victorians also used lead-based compounds in the joints and in finishes that were toxic to fungi (rot).

Having said that I know of redwood windows that I made 40 yrs ago that are still in good nick, but I made the sills from durable hardwood, treated the joints with preservative before assembly, and the paint's been maintained ...

I went off "durable" hardwoods after encountering many rotten oak cills - sometimes with the redwood stiles slotted in still in perfect condition. But paint could be the prob - it doesn't stick too well on oak.
Never had a prob with sapwood or new swedish redwood.

 

[Ollie78]

I would just use solid Accoya.
I am not sure there is any advantage in using the super expensive Triccoya, unless you already have a lot of it lying about.

I just do mine with a tongue both sides of the pulley lining and grooves in the cheeks, pretty quick to just run a load of stock lengths on the spindle and its the "traditional" way, creates a very good joint that will remain sealed even with a bit of movement.
Doing it with domino's makes me think it will be basically a butt joint, which could start to open between the domino's over time.
Will you be making custom Accoya domino's ?

Remember you will need to use a PU glue and your workshop will smell like salt and vineger crisps for ages !!

Ollie

 

[rogxwhit]

pulley lining

Pulley stile.

cheeks

Inner & outer linings.

;-)

 

[Ollie78]

Pulley stile.

Inner & outer linings.

;-)

Ha ha. I think this is a regional thing.

I worked with a Scotish fella and he would always call the staff bead "bar". As in "where is the 20mm barrr".


Ollie

 

[johnnyb]

don't start dissing red deal. built properly with a bit of protection it will last. sapele stuff made poorly and stuck on the face will rot. I once went to look at a beautiful set of folding doors in painted sapele. the panels had been cut tight and they were twisting ridiculously. brilliant job put together by numpties.
my pet theory on victorian redwood is it was growing during the little ice age. thus making it slow grown and durable. ie 1860 made would be growing 1780 on. wadya reckon?

 

[johnnyb]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...UQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0NaRDBwilEuKIufx1uu3lI

 

[Fitzroy]

don't start dissing red deal. built properly with a bit of protection it will last. sapele stuff made poorly and stuck on the face will rot. I once went to look at a beautiful set of folding doors in painted sapele. the panels had been cut tight and they were twisting ridiculously. brilliant job put together by numpties.
my pet theory on victorian redwood is it was growing during the little ice age. thus making it slow grown and durable. ie 1860 made would be growing 1780 on. wadya reckon?

Not buying it sorry, I think it's just that modern timber is fast grown as it is a farmed product, vs in Victorian times they were harvesting nonfarmed timber. Farms are all about efficiency and getting a product to market as soon as possible, the quicker you can get that tree to Xmeters tall and Y meters circumference the faster you can sell it. No idea how they do this (fertiliser, tree spacing or growing location?) but farmers are good at working this stuff out!

 

[Jacob]

don't start dissing red deal. built properly with a bit of protection it will last. sapele stuff made poorly and stuck on the face will rot. I once went to look at a beautiful set of folding doors in painted sapele. the panels had been cut tight and they were twisting ridiculously. brilliant job put together by numpties.
my pet theory on victorian redwood is it was growing during the little ice age. thus making it slow grown and durable. ie 1860 made would be growing 1780 on. wadya reckon?

I've compared bits and bobs of old and new redwood and usually there is no difference, assuming northerly sources. Saw mills would cut smaller trees for smaller timbers - so 6" floor boards would look the same whether 10 or 100 years old. But what you don't get is the larger stuff - massive boards grown from ancient virgin forest trees.