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Transparent hide glue?

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Chrips

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I'm new here. Hiya!

What's the clearest variety of hide glue in your experience? I want to use the next batch i buy as a filler as well as just glue, like i have done successfully with the stuff i have now, which dries with a brown colour. I have a bit of gap filling to do on some ash stock so brown is not what we want.
 

mrpercysnodgrass

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In my experience all hide glue dries to a brown or at the lightest a dark amber, however if you want to use it as a filler for ash you could add a little titanium powder to it or you may have to add more than one pigment to get the match you are after, I often add a little lamp black when I am working with ebony and it always works well.
 

Chrips

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Thanks for the tip percy. So the titanium powder (oxide??) is purely for use as a pigment right? I want to start stocking up on these kind of things but it's quite new to me really.
 

Chrips

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I think i might give brick dust a try, or dolomite maybe, having no pigments to hand. Incidentally i came across something called isinglass which is a collagen based product from fish bladders 'sometimes used as a specialist glue' for repairing parchments. It's quite flexble apprently, perhaps not suitable in this case but maybe worth talking to a fisherman about :)
 

mrpercysnodgrass

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Yes titanium oxide or you can also use flake White. You can get them from any polish supplier or art shop.
Other useful ones to keep in the cupboard are, lamp black, brown umber, burnt turkey umber, yellow ochre, and raw umber. They mix well with shellac, and cellulose lacquers and water with the exception of lamp black which you can mix into a stiff paste with PVA and then dilute with water.
 

Shrubby

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The artist pigment will be finer than brick dust. Have you tried Brummer stopping ?
A flexible glue might be difficult to sand out, Stopping tinted with pigments works for me
Matt
 

Chrips

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Thanks a lot Percy, I'll kepp my eyes peeled fo those. I haven't had the pleasure of brummer stopping Matt but i might do in the future. I'm just doing small budget hobby projects atthe moment the moment so i'm tryig to use whats around as much as possible. I'm quite excoyed about the thogt of colouring shellac, i didnt think it would be so easy, or easily doable rather.

I have some shellac flake, which leaves a noce golden yellowed finish which, while very nice with a nostalgic touch and lettig he grain show through beautifully, is not what i really consider a modern looking finish, certainly not what i want to use with Ash. Do you think this could be much altered with said pgmens or would i better buying a commercial bleached shellac.
 

mrpercysnodgrass

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Chrips, could you be a little more specific as to what your project is, photos perhaps. I only ask because you started asking about light coloured glue and now we are into coloured shellac which is a whole new subject.
Regards,
mrpercysnodgrass.
 

Chrips

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It's a magazine barge, for sticking newspapers and what not in. Here it is recently:



It's ash stock, with the odd bit of mahogany type in there for a couple of functional details. I was going to give a sealer coat of shellac and finish it with beeswax but I'm thinking maybe shellac now. I won't be french polishing, it's going to have an 'organic appearance and I don't want it to stand out too much beyond that, and just want to add a little bit of colour depth while preserving the grain pattern (ie not grain filling). I'm thinking that shellac (which I've used mixed from flake to give basic finishes to other pieces) is a good choice owing to the fineness of the coats, allowing the natural character of the wood to show through. That and I just like using shellac.

As for filler, this being an early project, there are a few gaps to fill. And I want to fill them with a little detail and colour. I'm very pleased with hide glue as a glue and it's abilities as a filler, so that's definately one of my staple finishing products discovered. I enjoy reading about ye olden finishing techniques and this is how I'd like to do things, as opposed to buying pre mixed products, and I'm very into using what's around me, especially when it free :).

Cheers

Chris
 

mrpercysnodgrass

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I think you have two choices with filler, you could mix hide glue with dust from the timber you are using into a stiff paste, push this into the gaps, allow to harden overnight and then sand, this will give a good filler that will blend nicely but will not disappear. your second choice is to use a commercial filler like Brummer or Wudfill, add pigment to it to match the timber, fill and sand.
If you want a natural organic finish on your piece then I would go with a couple of coats of shellac sanding sealer, cut back and wax. you can add pigment to the shellac to alter the colour but unless there is a problem that needs correcting I would always go with the natural colour, after all if you have quality timber you don't need to mess with it and ash very soon mellows from a creamy white to a nice golden amber all on its own. If you do want to alter the colour then I would always do this with a stain before applying any finish, that way you should get a nice even colour. Even experienced French polishers find applying tinted shellacs difficult without getting a streaky result. (present company excepted of course) hea hem:)
 

Chrips

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Yeah I believe ya ;). Thanks again Percy. I'm hope it will go golden because as much as I love the grain of Ash and working with it I do find the colour a little boring (in this case at least) and it just needs a little something. Beeswax will probably do it I think.

You too Mignal. I'd come across the gelatin thing before but never met anyone who'd tried it. I've looked for it in the local's too but they just eat pasties and parmo's around here although they's probably some in town. I'll probably give it a shot if my hide glue filler comes out too brown.
 

yetloh

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The nearest io have found is Cologne glue which is very pale. Used by musical instrument makers, I got mine mail order from Touchstone Tonewoods, In Reigate I think.

Jim
 

Chrips

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A bit of a late reply but what ho

Yeah someone mentioned Cologne to me. I think isinglass is a variant or other named used for the same stuff. Anyway I'll look into it. I ended up using hide glue mixed with wood flour and it will do given it's just filling my errors, but the brown hide glue is quite apparent and is not what I'd want to use for finer jobs.
 

MIGNAL

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Cologne glue is simply a mix of Hide glue and Bone glue. The clearest glue is the high clarity Hide. Bone glue tends to be quite a bit darker.
 

Chrips

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Ahah! Do you use such things Mignal? I'd like to get hold of something like that I think. The hide/pearl glue I have now is a lot clearer than the batch I used to do the job but still, I'm partial to variety where the details are concerned.
 

MIGNAL

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Chrips":24dw19i9 said:
Ahah! Do you use such things Mignal? I'd like to get hold of something like that I think. The hide/pearl glue I have now is a lot clearer than the batch I used to do the job but still, I'm partial to variety where the details are concerned.
I've used it all and more! I doubt you will get much clearer than Gelatin though.
 

Robert Wallace

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Chrips":76vurnea said:
I'm new here. Hiya!

What's the clearest variety of hide glue in your experience? I want to use the next batch i buy as a filler as well as just glue, like i have done successfully with the stuff i have now, which dries with a brown colour. I have a bit of gap filling to do on some ash stock so brown is not what we want.
from bob mcgregor I was once told my a old cabinet maker the best thing to do collect ash dust and mix with white glue then fill the gap once its hard you can sand it down
 

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