Traditional victorian door lining / architrave

[rhrwilliams]

Hi all .

I'm currently converting a church into a house . I've stud walled an area to make 3 bedrooms . The walls are 90mm stud (it's 2" x 4" but 90mm is finished size) and it has 15mm woodwool boards each side and will have roughly 3mm lime skim - on top of this is paneling to low level both sides.

I'm making all the doors so will also make linings etc but I'm struggling with the lining dimensions , design and build up.

Anyone know a good text book or reference for traditional details etc for things like this ? I have Ellis modern practical joinery which is my usual bible but nothing very helpful .

I want to copy existing doors which seem to be made up of about 3 seperate liners. I also visited 18 stafford terrace (google it - great) which has the same type build up of frame , beading frame and stop beads etc

P-S , I know how to fit a modern off the shelf door liner but that's not really what I'm after

Thanks

 

[Drudgeon]

Ellis would have been my first port of call also, I'm not sure how much there is to tell that you wouldn't already know, you would generally have the cock bead/bead butt detail on the lining itself, then a 2 or even 3 part architrave, also the door stop would generally run right up to the outside of the lining and would be the starting point for the architrave on the rear, often with an ovolo type detail on the door stop to act as a starting point for the rear architrave.

At least this is how I have experienced them, I hope that helps at least a little.

 

[rhrwilliams]

That may have been more helpful than you think ...

So is the inner beading detail of the lining usually on the actual lining itself ? I assumed it was a price of wood planted over ?

 

[Drudgeon]

hmmm, now you have rattled my memory banks, I actually think this is covered in Ellis' MPJ, traditionally the lining itself was square edged, but is stopped short of being flush with the wall, then the first (mainly flat) section of architrave, has the bead routed onto it, and sits onto the lining, although this first section of architrave was fixed directly onto the stud work, and was also used as a 'ground' to rule off the plaster finish.

You can still use the same method, but the lining can finish flush with the wall and flat section of architrave (with bead) fixed over the top.

Does that make sense?

 

[rhrwilliams]

That does make sense , and Ellis does have details .... Ill try to attach a photo ...but not quite the Info I'm after .

The picture shows what was said earlier about the architrave base .

Oh well , I might just take the architrave off a door on my house or do a mock up and see what it looks like

 

[AndyT]

Another good source of this sort of information is Cassel's Carpentry and Joinery, edited by Paul Has luck, which has the advantage of being available online here http://www.archive.org/stream/cassellscarpentr00hasl#page/n9/mode/2up

The scope is similar but it sometimes has more detail of the procedures to make what is described.

Page 334 shows an 'ordinary' door in a 4 1/2" wall or studded partition and on page 343 is a diagram of a grander door with a framed lining.

A lot depends on how grand you want your detailing to be. Our fairly modest 1897 terraced house has carefully graded doors, with the one on the parlour being a little larger and more decorated than those on the bedrooms.

 

[beech1948]

Andy T,

You are the worst sort of woodworker, a cad, a swine and a nuisance. Your link to the open Library has just cost me 3 hrs of browsing instead of attending to my business absolutely a poor show posting stuff like this.

Well actually I seem to have been directed to a great source of information so a big Thank You from me. I am currently renting a workshop but own 3 acres of land on which a developer wants to build some houses and I want to build a workshop but one which looks like it was Victorian in origin and built from wood inc an oak frame. I see the Open library taking a bashing as I try to draw up plans for next year..maybe.

Al

 

[rhrwilliams]

That book is excellent, thanks for that.

So good in fact I looked for a hard copy........£109 for an original !!!

 

[AndyT]

Andy T,

You are the worst sort of woodworker, a cad, a swine and a nuisance. Your link to the open Library has just cost me 3 hrs of browsing instead of attending to my business absolutely a poor show posting stuff like this.

Well actually I seem to have been directed to a great source of information so a big Thank You from me. I am currently renting a workshop but own 3 acres of land on which a developer wants to build some houses and I want to build a workshop but one which looks like it was Victorian in origin and built from wood inc an oak frame. I see the Open library taking a bashing as I try to draw up plans for next year..maybe.

Al

I'm guilty as charged - but not sorry! :wink:

I still think it's a bit of real progress that through the web we can get access to such a huge range of obscure information that used to only be available if you were wealthy or could enrol at and travel to a well-stocked university library. So I often push people towards it. (I also like the idea of using a brand new tablet or iPad to read free stuff from a hundred years ago.)

I expect you will also have found the 'sticky' here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...rking-books-plans-reference-sites-t59067.html which leads to lots more distractions.

I especially recommend the 'Masters Library' at WK Fine Tools, the Evenfalls Library and Gary Roberts' Toolemera site - they have tons of good books between them, mostly from the C19th.

Your workshop project sounds fun - I hope you realise that mentioning it like that commits you to posting a full work-in-progress story!

 

[AndyT]

That book is excellent, thanks for that.

So good in fact I looked for a hard copy........£109 for an original !!!

I hope that was for the deluxe edition with the album of special coloured plates - I don't think it's as rare as some similar ones. My copy was quite a lot less...

 

[dickm]

That book is excellent, thanks for that.

So good in fact I looked for a hard copy........£109 for an original !!!

I hope that was for the deluxe edition with the album of special coloured plates - I don't think it's as rare as some similar ones. My copy was quite a lot less...

So who wants to pay me £100 for my set of the original plates??????
(No chance - they're not for sale :twisted: )