Tormek sharpening system

[MikeJhn]

Can someone enlighten me as to the difference between the different models of the Tormek range, I am mainly interested in sharpening my P/T blades, the Arthritis in my hands has got to the point that sharpening manually is now out of the question.

Mike

 

[MusicMan]

Sorry I can't remember which model I have, the larger one I think, but the essential thing is that the planer sharpening jig (essential) fits onto it. It works well.

Keith

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Can someone enlighten me as to the difference between the different models of the Tormek range, I am mainly interested in sharpening my P/T blades, the Arthritis in my hands has got to the point that sharpening manually is now out of the question.

Mike

There are basically two models, one small (used to be the T3 now the T4 with an 8" wheel) and the bigger one (used to be called the T7, now the T8 with a 10" wheel).

The primary difference apart from the wheel diameter is the T7/8 have industrially rated motors whereas the T4 is more a hobby machine.

I would just check with a Tormek dealer (like Axminster) if the planar blade jig fits on the smaller machine because I have it myself (on a T7) and when the wheel has worn down a bit, it fouls on the honing wheel necessitating you to remove it when sharpening blades (not that that's difficult mind). It just makes me think that maybe with the smaller diameter wheel it may foul something else on the casing of the T4.

I would also caution you that if arthritis is your principle reason, buyer beware! The planar knife jig takes a fair bit of hand pressure and over quite a long time to get through the HSS. I have a Startrite 12" P/T and it's knives have particularly hard steel so it may be my knives are the problem rather than the Tormek/jig but it's not for the faint hearted I can tell you and you might well shell out several hundred pounds and fail to solve the problem. There is a Tormek forum where this gets discussed quite a bit and people have mixed reactions to the jig....depending on how hard their HSS knives are (as I say). Put it this way, I've stopped using it on mine and I even upgraded to the harder silicon blackstone to get a better grinding medium for HSS....all to no avail.

There is a Frankenstein solution though...you install a modern CBN wheel on the Tormek so you can use the planar jig on that. The CBN wheels are much more aggressive at removing metal AND they don't wear thus need no dressing. That's incredibly important to the planar knife jig because if you dress the Tormek stone mid grind, you reduce the wheel diameter and that in turn knocks the adjustment off with the jig which is very finely set. You need to dress the stone multiple times with hard knives because it glazes really quickly and stops cutting.

Bottom line, Tormek basic technology rubbish for the application but the jigs good so you need to change the underlying tek to get it to work efficiently. Tormek don't actually sell a CBN wheel (because it would cannibalise their stone sales) so you need an after market retro fit. If you buy one, ensure you get the right bushings so it fits the Tormek shaft properly or you'll have all kinds of wibbly wobbly.

HTH

 

[AJB Temple]

I agree with Bob. The standard large Tormek wheel requires a lot of pressure and also takes ages. I now use a Robert Sorby belt linisher which I find more effective. It's called a pro edge. Similar sort of investment. You do not need a lot of pressure. Very easy to change both angles and belts. I used mine yesterday and I have a broken wrist and forearm in a cast at the moment!

 

[MikeJhn]

Guys, very useful information, thanks a million, will look into the Robert Sorby solution.

Mike

 

[heimlaga]

I agree with the others.

I am a great fan of wet grinding knives and chisels and axes and drawknives of all sorts and even some plane irons. I use my Alimak waterstone grinder all the time.
However I don't find this a good way of grinding planer/thicknesser knives and with arthritic hands it should be just about impossible.

 

[Glynne]

I would have thought you could buy a lot of P/T blades for the price of a Tormek and the associated jig if that's going to be the main use? Obviously if you buy one you can use it for other tools but again they will need the respective jigs.

Without wanting to start another :twisted: Sharpening :twisted: thread, I inherited a Tormek along with most of the jigs and I only tend to use it for re-grinding plane and chisel blades which I sharpen using scary sharp (using the hollow grind). I gave up using it for turning tools due to the time to set up and have reverted to a pink wheel on a Delta grinder - yes it will wear my tools quicker but I'm more likely to sharpen them when they need it rather than just plodding on.

The above is just my perspective and I've now put a tin hat on whilst waiting for any differing views but perhaps see if there is anyone local who can demonstrate or let you have a play with one before shelling out fro what is not a cheap machine.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I am a Tormek dealer and think they are a great bit of kit but would suggest getting your planer blades ground by your local saw doctors. Tewkesbury Saw are local to me and have a 6' long magnetic water cooled grinder, my Tormek just can't compete with that. The Sorby is quicker but suffers with overheating if not used carefully.

Cheers Peter

 

[custard]

Mike, I'm with the camp that says send out your planer blades to be professionally re-sharpened. You can do it via the post, and if you keep a couple of sets on the go it's neither a major faff nor a major expense.

It's hard enough keeping many small planers set up properly, without the added uncertainty that you may not quite have nailed the sharpening.

 

[MikeJhn]

Thanks guys for all the responses, but my additional problem is having a workshop in rural France, no idea where the local saw doctor would be and pages Jaune are not that specific, I do have a few sets of planer blades, but there will be that one time...............

Post and deliveries to my place is a hit and miss idea, mostly miss.

Mike

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

The French must sharpen their planar blades with a trade rated supplier surely? isn't this just a question of finding one? If you want to pursue this route, then I suggest you pm me....I have a sister that emigrated to France in the 70's after reading languages, she married a Frenchman so I now have the perfect translation and local culture machine within the family. I can ask her to ask her hubby and perhaps we can find one based on your location.

I honestly think the Tormek wont solve the problem though the Pro-edge might. (I have a Pro-edge too for turning tools). I've not yet used it for planar blades but in principle I can see why it would work in terms of metal removal. (It's aggressive) What I cant see is how you could control the amount of steel being removed from each knife to maintain the overall balance when they're back in the block. That's the bit the Tormek jig manages very well because it ensures the same amount of metal is removed from each knife. The Pro-edge would rely on the operator being the judge on how much steel has been removed and that holds true for the steel across a single knife from left to right let alone the difference in steel removal from one knife to another. I would be interested to hear how AJ Temple has overcome this because if he's cracked it then I could be a serious advocate of the PE. I can really see it's potential but as I say I'm yet to try it so haven't any practical experience in overcoming what I'm assuming the problems might be in uneven grinding resulting in out of balance knives. But I might be over thinking this and you might just need to wack it one with the right angle and just go for it until the bevel is shiny and Bob's yer uncle it's done

AJ...can you shine any light on this please?

 

[MikeJhn]

Bob

You have a PM.

Mike

 

[AJB Temple]

Bob, I got my (engineer) brother to fabricate a side to side slider for me. It's pretty basic but works. I don't worry about taking the same amount of metal off different blades, as I can set the depth in the machine using a gauge. Whilst I do not advocate this in any way, I have also modified the removable side guard as this was originally set slightly proud of the belt. I take very little metal off - blades generally just need a touch up. When I sharpen chisels etc on the pro edge, I tend to do a batch and also quench them regularly to stop the risk of any heat build up (after been a bit over enthusiastic when I first got it!) AJ

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Righto...handy brother to have Thanks for responding.

Just thinking out loud....whats to stop PE users simply setting the table at the appropriate angle for the planar knife and then manually (but carefully) moving it from side to side? Would that not do it?

In terms of setup, I've discarded the side guard on my PE because it just slows down belt changes and I'm happy to accept the slight additional risk of pinching. I also quench judiciously to avoid drawing the temper, particularly with thinner edged tools.

On the balance of knives issue, I'm wondering if we're talking at cross purposes? What I was referring to was the idea that if different amounts of steel are ground from different knives, they become out of balance when back in the block of the P/T. Like you, I also set the height of my knives with a gauge so I'm not worried about how "deep" they are if you see what I mean. Now this is again, a little theoretical for my taste because I've never used planar knives that weren't evenly ground (either by a service or the Tormek by me). But reading around the subject over many years, the advice always seems to be that the balance is critical for smooth operation of the block. I've always taken that to mean each knife must have pretty much the same mass which is of course derived by only grinding the same amount of each one assuming they were equal to start with. But as I say, I'm wondering just how sensitive this equivalence in mass needs be and am I just over thinking it?

If yours is working without undue noise or vibration then I guess we can say the PE is the right solution n'est-ce-que pas? So do you think it can be done without the mod your brother made?

 

[AJB Temple]

Hi Bob - I think any differences in blade weight are likely to be so trivial in the high mass of the block. I would be amazed if there was any measurable out of balance effect. However, I must confess it never occurred to me until you mentioned it here!

Re my brother's jig. I think it would be easy enough to move the blades side to side by hand or mounted in a wooden block. Doing this was not why we made the jigs actually: I had just come back from a short course on hand making kitchen knives, and the guy making them used big linishers to grind the forged blades to shape. I was wondering if we could make do with a Robert Sorby linisher which is a great deal smaller, to do some finish work on knives. The answer to that question was "not really" as it just takes far too long to take enough metal off to grind knife blades thin enough. I never did buy a proper big linisher though as i could not justify the expense.

Edit - actually, I now have a trade rated big bench mounted belt sander that is much larger than the Robert Sorby. I shall have to see if I can get suitable belts for that.

 

[CHJ]

Rob, Knife balance:- If you need to take significant off one blade because of a bad nick then when finished measure its width (edge to back) with a micrometre or just a vernier calliper and use this to reduce the other blades down to the same dimension. I think getting the ground edge straight on narrow grinder media be it wheel or belt is the harder part of developing and using a home made sliding jig.

 

[MikeJhn]

I wonder if mounting this in front of the PE linisher: https://www.tormek.com/international/en ... nting-set/ and using the Tormek planer jig may be the answer.

Mike

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Right then...so basically, don't be too fussy about the decimal places in the knife balancing. That's useful. On your point Mike, I've got a BGM 100 and have never tried it for the planar blades. I think I recall rejecting it as an idea because the planar jig is operated from above the Tormek wheel whereas the BGM is down below in the lower position. But thinking about it, the wheel is still moving towards the edge which is the more aggressive cutting mode so despite it being lower, it might still work. I might give that a whirl when I get chance. That would certainly meet both Chas and AJ's criteria of having a means of moving the blade left and right while being controlled and at the same time retaining the quantity being ground off too.

 

[MikeJhn]

The BGM 100 is adjustable in its mounting looking at the pic's so can't see why it cant be mounted however you want, just needs a correctly sized piece of wood under it and turning through 90 deg's, this should put it at the angle and position on the belt how you wish?

Mike