Tormek and jigs

[MattRoberts]

Hi all, seriously considering pulling the trigger on:

Tormek T4
Square edge jig
Planer blade jig

My justification is: I'm using hand tools more and more, and really enjoying improving my skills, but I can't stand sharpening. To me, it's just a chore that gets in the way of the enjoyable bit - actually using the sharp tools. I've spent a small fortune on various sharpening stones, jigs and the like, and focus I might as well just go for a tormek as it seems to be much more of a one stop shop.

I get that lots of you hand sharpen, or can sharpen something to a razor edge with 10 strokes on your Japanese water stone that you got for tuppence ha'peny at a car boot, and I'm very envious of you. I however, can't, and to be honest I'd rather spend the time using the tool than sharpening it!

Is the tormek as idiot proof as it looks? And more specifically, has anyone used the planer jig? I've read mixed reviews of it, but I'm keen to get the most out of the tormek and be able to sharpen my three key blade types : chisels, plane irons and 260mm planer blades. Would I definitely need the diamond truing tool as well?

Thanks for any advice

 

[MikeJhn]

Often thought about one myself, but then I have a very good water stone, thought I would buy the bits to use with it.

Mike

 

[custard]

A Sorby Pro Edge and a Tormek T4 both cost roughly the same, around about £300. Although you'll probably spend more on the extras for the Tormek than for the Sorby.

I've used them both extensively.

-You can't (AFAIK) sharpen planer knives on the Sorby, but do some research and you'll find there are mixed reviews on the quality of Tormek sharpened planer knives.

-The Sorby is much, much faster in operation. Grinding a nick out of a thick A2 plane iron on a Tormek might take twenty dreary minutes or longer, on the Sorby it takes about two minutes. I bought one of the black replacement stones for a Tormek (not cheap), they're supposed to be better for harder steels but it didn't make much difference.

-With the Tormek there's zero chance of overheating and bluing a tool, with the Sorby it's not quite zero but the odds of a bluing cock-up are still very low.

-Sharpening turning tools on a Tormek isn't the best. The Tormek turning tool jigs themselves are fantastic but it's still very slow and you'll have to true up the stone pretty regularly. You can use the same jigs on the Sorby and the job takes seconds with no wheel truing.

I suspect the Tormek's real appeal is that it removes any risk of bluing, and many people are willing to trade long tedious hours at the machine in order to get this advantage. It's their money and their choice, but personally I think they're inflating the risk of overheating. A Sorby ProEdge (or a decent cool cutting stone on a traditional grinding wheel) make bluing pretty much a non issue, and both machines make the grinding process so quick that you're far more likely to keep tickling up the primary ground bevel on a "little but often" basis, which in turn reduces honing time to just a few strokes. Bottom line is that I suspect you'll end up with sharper, better maintained tools if you spend your money on a Pro Edge than a Tormek.

Just my opinion of course, however if you want to drop by the workshop and try out a Pro Edge for yourself then you're welcome.

Good luck!

 

[MikeJhn]

Custard

In that case what would you recommend for sharpening long planer blades?

Mike

 

[sunnybob]

I have the jet version of the tormek.
It is definitely a slow process, many minutes spent even for re sharpening, and if you have a lot of metal to remove you might want a cuppa next to you.
But you can get extremely accurate bevels and even secondary bevels.

From what I've researched, sorby is the way to go for turning tools, and I wouldnt dream of arguing with custard on a sharpening thread.

I wouldnt even consider trying to sharpen planer blades.
Find a machine shop with a surface grinder or fly cutter.
I have a saw sharpening shop which will do my planer blades for a quid a pair.

 

[custard]

In that case what would you recommend for sharpening long planer blades?

Most professional workshops use Tersa blocks or some other disposable knife system. They find that to be the optimum solution and I agree with them.

Failing that sending out knives for professional sharpening gets you reliably high quality results, it can be done by post.

I find I can get away with one or two interim light honings in situ before changing knives using a simple device like this,

I've tried re-sharpening my own planer knives but it's never really worked for me. The quality of the job tends to deteriorate with each iteration (which is why most professional sharpening shops will charge a premium if you've sharpened your own knives more than once or twice).

 

[MikeJhn]

At the moment I use a similar diamond block to edge my planer blades, once they get too bad I throw them away and buy another set, perhaps I have found the best way forward for me by happenstance.

Mike

 

[MusicMan]

I've used the Tormek for years, got it way before the Sorby came out. I would agree with Custard's criticisms, but of course he is speaking from a busy professional viewpoint. It is slow, but the jigs are very accurate and especially if one is inexperienced it is good to know that they will be done well. I have used a Sorby and they are good but not for planer blades.

I use the planer jig regularly, for a DeWalt lunchbox. The first time it took hours, because I had let them get very blunt, nicked and worn. But subsequently it is a 5 - 10 minute job and I do them whenever the cutting seems a bit laboured or the surface is off. As a result they are always in good shape. And after three or four sharpenings one has saved the cost of disposable blades or professional sharpening. I have not noticed any deterioration in the blades with repeated sharpening and I must have done these a dozen times. Of course, my use is quite light compared to a pro, especially as I do stuff like antiques restoration and harp making, rather than big furniture.

 

[Rorschach]

At the moment I use a similar diamond block to edge my planer blades, once they get too bad I throw them away and buy another set, perhaps I have found the best way forward for me by happenstance.

Mike

Are they HSS? If so I could make use of the old ones depending on size.

 

[MattRoberts]

Custard, thanks for the reply and your kind offer. Maybe I should revisit what I said earlier : I'm happy to spend a bit of time sharpening if the tool has a nick, or even to spend more time than it would take by hand given that it's an easier operation with repeatable results.

I'm only a hobby woodworker, and have yet to bed to re-grind and entire bevel of even deal with a significant nick.

I had dismissed the Sorby as it seemed to be more aimed at wood turners, and as you say the tormek jigs appeal to me as well as the water cooling.

Given what you say about needing to true up the stone, I'm thinking I would need to get the diamond dressing stone then if I went with the tormek.

 

[MattRoberts]

Musicman, good to hear of your experience with the planer knife jig. I'm sure that it wouldn't be quite as good as getting it professionally sharpened, however as a hobby user it seems it would do just fine.

 

[sunnybob]

Be very wary of dressing the stone on the tormek (and jet) it reduces the stone diameter by a significant amount each time.
and new stones are something like 90% of the cost of the machine.

i dont use a dresser on mine, and so far have not felt the need to.

 

[MikeJhn]

I imagine the stone only needs dressing if you habitually grind something that is not full width?

Mike

 

[MusicMan]

Be very wary of dressing the stone on the tormek (and jet) it reduces the stone diameter by a significant amount each time.
and new stones are something like 90% of the cost of the machine.

i dont use a dresser on mine, and so far have not felt the need to.

I only dress it occasionally, but I grade it often, for quick cutting at the start of a job to fine cutting at the end. The stone has lasted about 15 years so far.

 

[no idea]

I've got experience with the planer knife jig on my T7 with the original wheel and the black wheel. The main lesson I learnt about the planer jig is that it works best if you create a micro bevel on the planer blade as you would normally do on a bench chisel. The reason for this is simply that the amount of material required to be removed if maintaining a single bevel makes the process extremely slow and increases the chance of unevenness along the length of the blade.

It's also important not to apply pressure to the jig as this causes the support arm to flex slightly which also causes an uneven grind - basically just allow the wheel to do the work at its own pace.

I found the standard wheel can fade when trying to grind several planer blades and the black wheel is more consistant with HSS blades. The black wheel is not faster but since it doesn't fade like the standard wheel on HSS, there is less need to dress it. This is an important consideration when doing a matched set of knives because the diamond dresser has to work with the standard support arm so you need to remove the planer jig, dress the wheel, replace the planer jig and hope you can achieve exactly the same settings as you had previously if you need to dress the wheel part way through sharpening a set of knives.

Once you understand how the jig works, it is very effective for interim sharpening of planer knives. I found that it was more time effective to send knives off for sharpening once the micro bevel was more than two thirds across the primary bevel.

For bench chisels, the Tormek is as effective as any other sharpening method. When I did use it for chisels, I used the standard wheel to produce a 25 degree primary bevel and then changed to the Japanese stone to create and maintain the 30 degree bevel.

Having said all of this, I no longer use the Tormek for planer knives or chisels because I have changed the planer to use a different cutter type and I use diamond stones for chisels. This works for me because I don't have space to keep the Tormek permanently set up on a bench, which meant I didn't use it as often as I should have on the bench chisels. I also found the need to rotate it to get access to the correct side of the honing wheel a hassle so ended up not using it very often.

For me, the main reason for getting the Tormek was to sharpen planer knives. Now that I don't need it for this, I've decided to sell it because as good as it is for bench chisels, it is less practical than hand sharpening (in my case).

 

[MikeJhn]

How much do you want for the T7 and jigs. PM sent.

Mike

 

[GKB]

I bought the Tormek a couple of months ago.
Brought some old hand plane blades back from the dead with ease.
Great piece of kit.

 

[MattRoberts]

Thanks no idea, that's some great feedback.

I see Mike jumped on you like a randy sailor at bar closing time - let me know if it doesn't work out with him and we could come to a deal

Cheers

 

[custard]

Given what you say about needing to true up the stone, I'm thinking I would need to get the diamond dressing stone then if I went with the tormek.

Personally I'd say you absolutely need the diamond dresser, and it needs to be used every three or four sharpenings. I was surprised to read "Sunnybob's" verdict, but if that's his experience then fair enough.

The Tormek has a clever little dressing device that operates on a screw thread, so the diamond stone tracks across the entire stone, you have to operate it at a consistent speed to get a perfectly flat surface but that comes easily enough with practise.

It was interesting to read "Music Man's" account of good results with planer knives and contrast that against "No Ideas" experiences. I suspect that the shorter the knives the better the chances of being satisfied, but in any event it requires a rigorously meticulous and methodical approach to maximise your chances of success with planer knives.

Good luck!

 

[sunnybob]

Custard, I'm too cheap to erode the stone by keep changing the surface grit.

The stone has a very slight offset to it now, but as the motor turns it so slow I dont have any problem keeping a steady pressure on the blade.

Its well known I'm new (AND crap) at sharpening, and I cant claim anything I possess as "scary sharp" but it all works for me.