Tools of the Decade

[Racers]

Hi,

I think the answer is right in front of us, how many problems has this forun solved? and how much advice been given.


Pete

 

[PeterBassett]

Hi,

I think the answer is right in front of us, how many problems has this forun solved? and how much advice been given.


Pete

+1 for that!

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Hi,

I think the answer is right in front of us, how many problems has this forun solved? and how much advice been given.


Pete

I think that's a very good shout. This forum has transformed woodworking for many, many people. Long may it last. And a thread like this is perhaps evidence of how magazines and new technology can work together.

Nick

 

[Ross K]

Two successful woodworkers; one is highly skilled at using hand tools with little knowledge of power tools, the second is highly skilled in using power tools and has little knowledge of hand tools....

An interesting issue you raise there...

As a pro using both hand tools and power tools I can tell you that I would be out of business if I used only hand tools. It's not so much the rate per hour that is the issue for me, a guy trying to make a half-decent living at it ("half" being the key word!!), as the total duration taken to make a piece.

What I mean is, if I used hand tools only I would take so long to make a piece of furniture that the cost of that piece would be such that there would be very, very few customers willing to pay the price.

Both power tools and hand tools are essential, to a cabinet maker. You cannot do the job (and make any money) without power tools and there are tasks for which hand tools are the only realistic option.

Back to this thread subject, the recent developments in hand and power tools (but moreso the latter) have meant that guys like me can make more accurate (and therefore stronger) work, quicker and offer customers better value for money and more sophisticated designs. And, occasionally, make a living out of it!!

Some pro makers sniff at the use of machines like the Domino but I'll bet that the same makers have one hidden away in a cabinet somewhere. They'll come out of the closet one day when it becomes more "acceptable" to embrace the new technology along with the old.

I see myself as a contemporary cabinet maker, so I have no shame in embracing modern construction techniques and tools along with the more traditional, and neither should hobbyists. After all, all time is precious whether it's in a professional capacity of otherwise.

On that subject, I'm off to make something...

 

[houtslager]

ROSS K wrote

I see myself as a contemporary cabinet maker, so I have no shame in embracing modern construction techniques and tools along with the more traditional, and neither should hobbyists. After all, all time is precious whether it's in a professional capacity of otherwise.

I started in this game of butchering timber as an Antique furniture restorer, and by that I was using 90% hand tools in my work.

Nowadays, as a furniture maker now it's the other-way around. [ well nearly :wink: ] My use of tools with tails has jumped enormously.
In fact I only used the biscuiter seriously 5 /6 years ago, now I have the domino too 8) I use modern tools where time is of necessity, but I DO PREFER HAND TOOLS - why less noise and less dust and no cables to trip over

There, my euro cents worth. 8)

 

[Alf]

I think the answer is right in front of us, how many problems has this forum solved? and how much advice been given.

I agree - although it's not just this forum or even just those currently in existence, if we're talking the whole decade.

If you want a tangible tool taken from a box, I'd have to plump for the resurgence of bevel-up/low angle planes. By all means accuse me of bias*, but Veritas in particular - they didn't just adopt the advantages of ductile iron over the limitations of grey iron and stick with the old design, but picked up the ball and ran with it. Their bevel-up smoother, and even more the low angle jack are just great planes. Modern classics. Even if the handles do need a bit of work... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

*Go on, if you must. But I do have a LN low angle jack and smoother in the workshop, just so as you know before you start.

 

[yetloh]

I have no shame in embracing modern construction techniques and tools along with the more traditional, and neither should hobbyists.

Absolutely. Chippendale would certainly have used a Domino if it had been available, not to mention MDF.

Also agree with the general gist of Alf's comment about Veritas. I have far more respect for a firm like Lee Valley, who have brought real innovation to high quality woodworking tools through their Veritas range, than LN who have just copied Stanley's old designs and made them to a higher standard. Now, if LV could consistently get the aesthetics right (yes, I know that is down to taste) they could really wipe the floor with LN.

Jim

 

[MikeG.]

Absolutely. Chippendale would certainly have used a Domino if it had been available, not to mention MDF.
Jim

Well, one right out of two, I reckon.

I believe that a domino is some-sort of woodworking machine to speed up jointing or replace dowelling........I reckon Chippendale might have used one if he had the option.

However, I cannot for a minute think of any piece of Chippendale furniture that would have had a place for MDF! This was high-end stuff, sold to the great country estates, London businesses and Royalty. I'll bet the designer-makers and manufacturers working in these markets today don't use MDF on similar pieces, so I think it is stretching credulity to suggest that Thomas C would have used it.

Mike

 

[Jake]

Anyone who does veneered work would be daft not to use MDF as a substrate, at whatever level of perceived 'quality'.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

However, I cannot for a minute think of any piece of Chippendale furniture that would have had a place for MDF! This was high-end stuff, sold to the great country estates, London businesses and Royalty. I'll bet the designer-makers and manufacturers working in these markets today don't use MDF on similar pieces, so I think it is stretching credulity to suggest that Thomas C would have used it.

Mike

Couldn't agree more, Mike. Can't argue with its uses in kitchens etc..., but I hate the stuff.

Nick

 

[yetloh]

I hate MDF too but that is not the point. Sheraton or any other top maker of whatever age would always want to use the best material for the job. In this respect there is in my opinion a better argument for MDF than for the Domino jointer. I say this on the basis that, in tests, a traditional tenon has proved stronger than a Domino although the difference will in most applications be immaterial. However, I do not believe there is a better substrate for veneering than MDF. The alternative is ply but ply will sometimes twist which MDF will not. Yes, it must be solid lipped (but so must ply) but it will then be the closest thing possible to a completely stable panel which is what is required in fine furniture. If the Edward Barnsley workshop (and numerous others) thinks it is the most appropriate material for the job then that is good enough for me.

Jim

 

[lurker]

I'll bet the designer-makers and manufacturers working in these markets today don't use MDF on similar pieces, so I think it is stretching credulity to suggest that Thomas C would have used it.

Mike

I believe Linley uses it extensively although I suppose you might quite reasonably not class him as a high level designer: he certainly sells in this market.

I'd say a veneered MDf panel was superior to veneeered ply.

 

[MikeG.]

Well, interesting how a thread on the tools off the decade has ended up arguing about whether or not Thomas Chippendale would have used MDF if he had the choice.

I actually can't be bothered with the argument. Use the stuff if you want to. I don't, except for templates. This will end up as a heated repeating of entrenched views................ so I'm outa here.

Mike

 

[lurker]

Mike, it's called "a conversation" when the subject veers this way & that.

Actually getting back on topic - I'll nominate MDF as the tool of the decade!

The stuff you get now, is great for templates & jigs & making items that are going to be painted

 

[wizer]

What about Dado heads?

**Runs away ducking**


:lol:

 

[Smudger]

I like veneered MDF. I think I might be about to make a TV cabinet out of it.
It's a pipper to carve, though.

 

[Smudger]

What about Dado heads?

**Runs away ducking**


:lol:

Who are you calling a dado head?

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I hate MDF too but that is not the point. Sheraton or any other top maker of whatever age would always want to use the best material for the job. In this respect there is in my opinion a better argument for MDF than for the Domino jointer. I say this on the basis that, in tests, a traditional tenon has proved stronger than a Domino although the difference will in most applications be immaterial. However, I do not believe there is a better substrate for veneering than MDF. The alternative is ply but ply will sometimes twist which MDF will not. Yes, it must be solid lipped (but so must ply) but it will then be the closest thing possible to a completely stable panel which is what is required in fine furniture. If the Edward Barnsley workshop (and numerous others) thinks it is the most appropriate material for the job then that is good enough for me.

Jim

My comment was a bit of a red herring, I admit. Except that I think the making of an object does have some bearing on the end product: do the ends always justify the means? While you're unlikely to find a flatter and more stable surface than MDF, that may not always be want you want. A maker might even want to convey some of the imperceptible curves etc... of a ply-veneered board. It would be interesting to see if people could tell the difference between MDF-veneered boards and ply-veneered boards. Certainly there'd be a weight issue, and that shouldn't be discounted.

Sorry for the ramble, but I've always found this a very interesting topic.

Nick

 

[Paul Chapman]

entrenched views

It's not entrenched views, Mike. You said that you bet top-end designer/makers don't use MDF, whereas many of them openly advocate MDF as the best material for veneering.

While I don't really like using the stuff, the fact remains that it's currently the best material for many jobs.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[FrCollins]

Not an MDF fan, but it is very useful. It would be interesting to know which is more environmentally friendly; on one hand it surely takes a lot of energy and chemicals to produce MDF board, on the other there are bound to be many trees saved by not producing as many boards like plywood and other products were solid wood would normally be used and veneered MDF is now suitable.