Tool Gloat and advice request

[SP]

Just taken delivery of the Festool Domino and extras box and been 'playing' ahem testing it. Lovely tool - not sure why it costs so much other than supply and demand principles, but nonetheless it is easy to use.

Question - does anyone use it to make wider than the max provided mortices and then use a homemade 'domino' For example a 35mm wide mortice by overlapping the cutting?

Any major tips to using it successfully?

Thanks,

Stephen

 

[Chems]

I got one at Christmas and thought the same, why are they so expensive?! They are very well made but they are a simple tool at the end of the day really.

Beside the by, you could do what your saying but it would be quicker (the whole point of the domino) to just batch dominos together. Theres lots of examples from Festool of them using banks of dominos to gain extra strength.


My top tip for using it is make sure you are referencing off the same face when your using it to joint up. Sometimes its easy to do one side then flip the board over and do the other, you then end up with a few mm error in the line up. Gotta remember to turn the board horizontally to work on each end. This doesn't matter if you have sent the fence to be exactly the thickness of your work piece, but I work mostly with 18mm stuff and the closest setting is 16mm and its a pain to set it manually.

 

[SP]

Chems,

Thanks for the reply. I suppose in most situations twining the dominos will be a good idea, but I have to make 16 internal oak doors soon and I wondered if dominos would suffice. Probably need to do conventional stuff with them - just looking for a quicker way to do 96 big M&T's!

 

[Chems]

Have a look at this SP:

http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/PanelDoors.htm

Door is made with stacked dominos. Lots of pictures further down. Festool say that its main features is for doors and windows. I think there is a thread on here where Dibs makes a window frame and window using domino joints. They actually offer more long grain surface area than an tenon when used in the stacked configuration I think is the line Festool takes on it.

Also read this, the extended user manual:

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/docs ... Domino.pdf

And finally, you can make your own dominos that are 56mm long, and then use the full 28mm plunge depth in both sides of the mortices, but that only gains you 4mm of depth from the largest standard sized tenon (two 25mm plunges)

Hope this helps, and hope to see a WIP of the doors.

 

[SP]

Wow thanks - two great links there.

I'll definitely give the doors a try using it.

I've had chance to have a bit more experimentation with it and it is just so superb. It kind of makes it almost trivial making a morticed joint - it's so easy.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just taken delivery of the Festool Domino and extras box and been 'playing' ahem testing it. Lovely tool - not sure why it costs so much other than supply and demand principles, but nonetheless it is easy to use.

Question - does anyone use it to make wider than the max provided mortices and then use a homemade 'domino' For example a 35mm wide mortice by overlapping the cutting?

Any major tips to using it successfully?

Thanks,

Stephen

I think Steve Maskery covers this in one of the videos he has on YouTube. I've no doubt he'll disabuse you of this shortly if I'm wrong. I know he's an enthusiastic Domino user (player?).

Presently, my own Domineering is reduced to mere covetousness...

 

[Chems]

Wow thanks - two great links there.

I'll definitely give the doors a try using it.

I've had chance to have a bit more experimentation with it and it is just so superb. It kind of makes it almost trivial making a morticed joint - it's so easy.

It does indeed, I still will make the occasional joint the old fashioned way but the super feeling of having those dominos slide together and the fit been so tight and the faces all been in parallel is a joy to do everytime.

Eric, your welcome to come looks at mine closely, you will then surely be sold on the idea!


The dominos one downfall is weight, when you have a hose attached to it it can be a real handful with all the wires and hoses coming off it. But the weight is the quality of the parts, so can't knock that.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Eric, your welcome to come looks at mine closely, you will then surely be sold on the idea!

A very kind thought, but I need no persuading - just the necessary dosh! So, for the time being, I just drool from a distance (but not on the surfaces!)...

 

[Chems]

The thing I like most about new tools is when say you've been using and £80 table saw for 2 years an then upgrade to a £1000+ saw, your fascinated by every aspect and all the new features. With the domino you miss out on that, its the only one of its kind, its hard to be overwhelmed with it at first, as its so like a biscuit jointer, its the quality and speed of work which you have to get excited about not the way in which it does it. Just my warning for when you get yours!

 

[Dibs-h]

My top tip for using it is make sure you are referencing off the same face when your using it to joint up. Sometimes its easy to do one side then flip the board over and do the other, you then end up with a few mm error in the line up. Gotta remember to turn the board horizontally to work on each end. This doesn't matter if you have sent the fence to be exactly the thickness of your work piece, but I work mostly with 18mm stuff and the closest setting is 16mm and its a pain to set it manually.

Absolutely necessary to reference from a single face - otherwise errors will creep in. On a single joint - neither here nor there - but on something like a door or window, with 4 corners\joints, it could be noticeable.

 

[trousers]

Have a look at this SP:

http://www.superwoodworks.com/Projects/PanelDoors.htm

Hmmmmm. Looked at this and I'm not sure.

In that project, only one domino in each joint is used on the "tight"setting. The rest are on the loose setting. For me this adds little mechanical strength to a joint which traditionally would be a large M and T.

Personally, with room sized doors, I have reservations about using the domino. Fine for cupboard doors etc (on the tight setting).
I know dowelled construction is common, but at least the dowels are a friction fit and add some strength. For me the jury is still out whether room doors (esp heavy oak ones) made with doms will last.

 

[petermillard]

Hmmmmm. Looked at this and I'm not sure.

In that project, only one domino in each joint is used on the "tight"setting. The rest are on the loose setting. For me this adds little mechanical strength to a joint which traditionally would be a large M and T.

At the risk of stating the obvious, you don't have to do it this way; you could (almost) as easily use the tight setting for all the doms. And surely the mechanical strength comes from the glue area i.e. principally the flat sides of the dominos, which are plenty tight whichever setting you use??

I've only made one set of doors with dominos (slightly undersize pair of French doors) and they seem to be holding up just fine after ~3 years or so, just FYI.

Cheers, Pete

 

[Chems]

Also depends what glue you use Trousers, PVA isn't a gap filler but the PU glues are so the gap would still be super strong.

The reason for setting only one is to allow for error. But since having mine I haven't once used the loose setting as with careful marking up that we are used to as woodworkers they will all go in easily on the tight setting. Don't knock it till you've tried it!

 

[Dibs-h]

Also depends what glue you use Trousers, PVA isn't a gap filler but the PU glues are so the gap would still be super strong.

The reason for setting only one is to allow for error. But since having mine I haven't once used the loose setting as with careful marking up that we are used to as woodworkers they will all go in easily on the tight setting. Don't knock it till you've tried it!

If you read some of the stuff on the Domino - there's a pdf floating about written by am american, which states that the strenght of a joint is marginally affected by using the loose domino, i.e. the strength is from the surface area that is gued - not from any tightness of a joint.

 

[Chems]

Yeah I've read that one, I totally agree with what you said earlier, the long face is the glue surface.

 

[trousers]

OK, I do see your attraction to using the domino, but consider this.

Assuming a 100mm stile to 100mm rail joint. Using 4 doms 50 x 10 gives you 4Doms x 2glue faces per dom x 25mm dom depth x 25 dom width = 50sq cm of total glue area in the stile of the joint.
Compare to a trad through tenon joint 100mm depth x (say) 75mm height = 150 sq cm total glue area, ie 3 times as much glue area.

In my book the M/T is a stronger joint, allied to the fact that it has more mechanical strength, esp if wedged.

If a customer asked me to make a set of internal oak doors, I know which method I would use and guarantee.

 

[SP]

I agree with Trousers in that the greater area can be obtained with the traditional M&T but is that really the deciding factor.?
With modern glues is there any need to have 3 times the surface area.

I've actually butted end grain together with glue and no mechanical strengtheners and the joint is holding up to this day, 6 years later. Not perfect or wise I agree, but the strength of glue has to be taken into account surely.

Go far enough back in time and I guess all joints were made using huge mechanical joints because that was the only ONLY way to achieve sufficient strength.

I still favour the conventional approach in most situations, but I think I'll make at least the first door using dominoes and maybe try swinging on it!

Stephen

 

[Chems]

Assuming a 100mm stile to 100mm rail joint. Using 4 doms 50 x 10 gives you 4Doms x 2glue faces per dom x 25mm dom depth x 25 dom width = 50sq cm of total glue area in the stile of the joint.

Its completely beyond my maths skills but what about the ends and sides, a domino has more than 2 faces. It like that old adage, which contains more fat, 5 steak chip or 5 french fry, people always say the steak chips but according to my maths teacher it is the french fry as it has more surface area?

If I was making 50 doors for a customer, then time is money and I'd most defiantly use the domino.

 

[trousers]

You don't even have to do the maths. Just look at and compare the joints. Lay 2 complete dominos on a 100 x 75 tenon and use your eyes.

 

[Chems]

You said 4 earlier!

Have you used the domino? Made anything with it. You really should try it before casting judgement, I thought originally that they wouldn't be sufficient for everything but they really are surprising in the area.