Thinking about a project

[DrPhill]

Hi all,

I am toying with the idea of making a wooden whistle (hardwood) - partly for the challenge and learning experience. I have some ideas about how to procede, but lack the terminology and experience to express myself clearly. Any help in clarifying my thoughts would be welcome.

My toolset is very limited, so I may need to improvise more than you folks normally would.

What I want to achieve is a tapered-bore whistle. Think of a tube with a hole of non-constant diameter*. I can probably achieve this easiest by getting a block of timber and sawing it in half lengthwise, then forming half of the central hole on each piece of timber, before gluing the two halves back together. Maybe the join will 'disappear'.

*id ~20mm, od maybe 30-40mm length ~ 600mm max

I have used the hole creation technique building a whistle case, see here, fifth picture. I started with two pieces of timber, and could not disguise the join. Professionals probably create one or more special drilling tools for this task, but that is beyond my toolset/skillset.

The original block of timber would be longer than the final tube, so that I could bolt the two pieces together as an accurate reference.
Once the hole has been made I would use files and such to shape the outside of the tube.

So,
- does this seem a feasible strategy?
- should I choose a particular 'cut' of timber (timbers to avoid)?
- what should I use to cut the original timber in half, lengthwise, accurately, flat, straight, and preferably thin (to hide the join later)?
- would it make more sense to cut and bolt the timber, and get it lathed before making the hole?
- or even get it lathed before cutting it open (how thin could a cut be?) ?
- am I mad?

Any other thoughts appreciated.....

thanks in advance

 

[xy mosian]

Hi Phill,
Apparantly French soldiers, many moons ago, used their bayonets to ream the inside of whistle bodies. More recently Brian Boggs, chair maker uses a long tapered reamer to produce tapered mortices in chair bottoms. His reamer is a piece of tapered wood with a saw cut along the length through the axis. This saw cut carries a loose, shaped scraper, of the appropriate size. This blade does not need to be fixed as in use it has no where to go. If you have the means to drill an axial hole through the blank then this may be the way to go. As you get more proficient you will be able to change the profile of the inner bore.
I have, at intervals, given brief thought to trying to make a Recorder. I'm sure to have a tiny collection of random data grabs from the web, where else, if you would like me to gather what I have let me know.
xy

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'd go the tapered reamer route, too, Phill. I think it will be easier, quicker and produce a better result than making it in two halves.
Remember, if there are no pics you never made it!

S

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you decide not to use a reamer, why not find a wood that cleaves easily: split it, cut out what you want and glue it back up - no visible joint.

 

[DrPhill]

Thank you both for the suggestion, but I do not have a reamer of the correct shape/size. Nor do I know how to make one......

I do have carving tools and patience though. Unfortunately neither allows me access to the entire 600mm of hole I wish to create. Cutting the blank in half allows me that access.

As for making a recorder a tapered bore whistle will be better (for me). Recorders are awkward to play over more than one octave, whereas a (good) whistle can manage a little over two octaves. Granted the recorder is more easily chromatic, but that is of less importance to me.

Phil.p: If the wood splits easily, woould that not comprimise the strength of a tube? Otherwise a good thought......

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Make the joint visible. Very visible. Laminate the whole thing?

 

[xy mosian]

.... His reamer is a piece of tapered wood with a saw cut along the length through the axis. This saw cut carries a loose, shaped scraper, of the appropriate size. This blade does not need to be fixed as in use it has no where to go....

Brief instructions for making a reamer, could be any shape. I could see there being a problem with a reamer of this type for use in small diameter holes.
xy

 

[Robert]

This is on my long term to do list and a few attempts have joined the firewood pile.
Recorders etc are normaly turned to round and pilot bored then left to dry/relax before more boring and reaming the wind column.
Step bore to near size and then ream. Flat steel reamers are said to work, the diameter being set by the diagonal corners, although my attempts gave a convincing triangular hole but close to size. I think it needed to be sharper and I wonder what the resultant sound would be. Easily filed from flat stock, gauge plate may be better and hardenable, it just takes time. Wooden bodied reamers have been used although small sizes may be impracticle.
The back articles from this group may be helpful or at least hopefully informative.
http://www.fomrhi.org/

Robert

 

[DrPhill]

I wish I could turn and bore the blank - but that would require a significant investment in equipment. Laminating has some attractions, but I need to think through the possible problems too.

At least no one has answered the last question in the afirmative.

 

[AndyT]

That link from Robert is a good one!

If you go to this edition of the Fellowship's newsletter http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-070.pdf and read from page 20 there's a description of how to make and use a reamer rotating against a rotating workpiece to drill a long tapered hole.

I think Roy Underhill did a programme on making a recorder, but I don't think it's available on line.

 

[xy mosian]

Sorry Phill, to answer your last question. We are all mad here aren't we? :lol: Well almost all of us to some extent.
If you are destined to use a split blank, isn't that how Alpine horns are made, could you make a feature of it with a contrasting slip of wood?
xy

 

[xy mosian]

I've just seen that link to Fomrhi. Fellowship of Makers and Restorers of Historical Instruments. By that takes me back, I think I joined for about quarterly no4. Parted company when money got tight and interests moved on to other things. There was, probably still is a great deal of very useful infomation around in those quarterly's.
xy

 

[DrPhill]

I have been reading those sources with some interest, but I have not got the tools or skills to make the reamers. Maybe I should contemplate acquiring such, but it threatens to get somewhat costly.

I like the idea of making a virtue out of a neccessity - deliberately use contrasting woods. I may be passing Yandles sometime in february and can have a timber browse. I seem to remember they had a selection of blanks for turning.

I cannot see a viable alternative yet to my current plan..... what saw should I use for a fine cut? Is it achievable by hand, or will I have to 'outsource' the job to someone with machinery? What would be the right kind of machine to seek?

 

[Jacob]

Making a recorder (or whistle they are much the same) is pretty straightforward with a lathe and a reamer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiSW6LPchSc
A reamer is easy to make - just a tapered flat (old file?)
A hand powered reamer without a lathe will do (see bayonet ref above)
If these won't do I suppose direct carving into two halves will, but with difficulty.
What about rolling the thing with veneers? Think 'big joint' ?

PS if you are going the two halves route then a fine cut isn't the issue. Any old bits of wood would do - but the issue would be bringing the two halves together with flat (planed?) matching surfaces, however you arrived at them, split with an axe even.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObknmaH9po

 

[DrPhill]

What a spliff. Takes me back to my yoof. Do the kids still do that these days?

The hand reamer idea may be a runner - though I have not done any such work in metal yet. How does one shape the reamer/oldFile?
Of course that technology means that any lathe usage comes first (as mentioned above). I may be able to hand shape the outside though - I managed with the whistle case. I imagine that an accurately drilled starter hole would help immensely.

You are right about the join of the split halves - if the split is rough I will need to smooth the flats to match. I was hoping that there might be some sawing technology that would provide a reasonable approximation of flat. I would prefer a thin flat straight cut so that a minimal amount of material is removed. Hopefully the join would be less noticeable that way. Otherwise, as you imply, I could chew the blank into two halves using my grandads old spare teeth.

This project might be the impetous to buy, and learn to use, a plane. Or it could be nudge me into making reamers. Choices. But the workshop is still to cold, so I can plan in the warm instead.

 

[Jacob]

..... How does one shape the reamer/oldFile?

With a new file.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Phill, my thoughts on splitting the wood were that you wouldn't have to flatten the pieces, just glue them straight back together (hence no visible joint) the only real down side being that it might be more difficult to work an uneven surface. You could conceivably find a way of holding the halves in some sort of box, which would allow you to run a router with a core box cutter over it.
You could centre it easily on a lathe afterwards, too.

 

[DrPhill]

..... How does one shape the reamer/oldFile?

With a new file.

Boom Boom.......

I guess I set that one up for you....

 

[AndyT]

Gosh, woodworking without a plane, that is challenging!

I think you could use the same method as you used for your box. I see from the photo of it that you left it overlong so you could put a registration pin / dowel at each end so you can keep the two bits lined up accurately, and I think that's a good idea.

Boxwood would be the classic wood to use and it's not too hard to find logs in the round which would be big enough - I bought some a while ago at Stourhead.:

You'd need to saw it in two - you could rip it by hand but a bandsaw would be easier, then plane* both surfaces perfectly flat while removing the minimum amount of material.

To excavate the half - holes, you could use gouges and chisels; a plough plane; a powered router or any combination.


* shopping hint!

 

[DrPhill]

Thanks Andy, you describe my initial plan (ie if what I did last time worked, adapt it to the new project). However, last time I started with two pieces of ready-finished sapele, so joining the faces was simple - but obvious.

I have a small plane (that I have never used.

............then plane* both surfaces perfectly flat while removing the minimum amount of material.

Aye, theres the rub. A skill that I may need to learn. After learning how to sharpen the blade, of course. I could make a jig to use my router as a thicknesser.

To excavate the half - holes, you could use gouges and chisels; a plough plane; a powered router or any combination

Yes, that bit I can do - I have plenty of carving tools.

Maybe I need to do a prototype, using some of the sapele if I can find any left-over chunks. That will highlight problems without resorting to spending money. I still like the 'make a reamer' idea, though I have a feeling that this simple statement hides a world of difficulty.

Yes, boxwood is a classic material, as are many of the exotic dark woods.