The great vacuum extractor conundrum.

[Ollie78]

Hi everyone.

I am struggling with buying a new vacuum extractor. I will try to explain why. I have a nilfisk multi 30 which has served me well but is incredibly loud and I keep having to buy new hose ends as they wear out very quickly and can`t be easily bought near to me. Also I have no idea what the dust collection rating is on it.
This is mainly for site work and a bit of workshop stuff. I have a Record DX5000 for machinery extraction (great machine by the way)
I would like high level of filtration as I encounter unknown dusts and mdf etc.

I was looking at the Festool ctl or ctm vacuums as I have quite a few Festool tools and find them great, also they allow connection of 2400w tools (ie big router) . The problem I am having is the on going running costs of these vacuums. I always use filter bags in my vacuums as this is the way they were designed, it is just convenient for easy disposal and the filtration level class M or L etc. is only with filter bags installed.

So the Festool bags cost around £5 each I can use 2 a day sometimes. The Nilfisk bags are £2 each so this is better.

I have looked at Bosch, Makita and Dewalt M class machines which all look like good machines but again the bags cost at least £5 each.
Also at first look the Fein dustex offerings look good as does the trend one but again the price of bags is crazy.

Currently the winning choice appears to be the H class offering from Numatic http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-hml- ... -extractor . This machine is H class which surpasses all the other machines for particles collected. The bags are the standard Numatic Hepa flow ones which can be found for £1.50 each or less if you buy loads. Though they do not state that this exact model has auto on or not, only that it is available as an option.??
Also the hoses and nozzles etc are easily found and cheap.

For me the purchase price is a lot, most of these machines are around the £500 range but if it lasts me a few years it is no problem. The running costs however will be constant and so I think more important.

100 bags for festool is £500 , 100 bags for numatic £150.

I have looked at the dust deputy type cyclones but I don`t see the point of collecting the dust in a tub and then releasing the fine and most dangerous dust again when emptying it.

Has anyone found anything better (the holy grail of extractor vacuums )

I feel like I would like to do a spreadsheet of Vacuum extractor purchase and running costs with filtration standards included, if I knew how to do that.

All suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

 

[Chrispy]

Have you tried

http://www.dustbag.co.uk/

for bags? they might do one for the festool if they do they will be a lot less than £5 each!

 

[KevM]

I have looked at the dust deputy type cyclones but I don`t see the point of collecting the dust in a tub and then releasing the fine and most dangerous dust again when emptying it.
Thanks.

Hi Ollie,
I agree with your logic re: dust; however in practice I've found that when I take my drop bin outside periodically to change the bin liner I get very little/no dust escape, I'm all masked up and make sure to stand upwind (I avoid doing it in very windy conditions!). I do take care to avoid my bag getting over-full, also my liners are quite long relative to the bin so there's always plenty to work with and I use a cable tie to seal the bag which is quick and easy.

For what it's worth I've got an M class DeWalt DWV902M that drives my Dust Deputy on a 60L food bin; I'm very pleased with the combination. The only problem I get from time to time is that it doesn't seem to sense my sander very well. It's fine on start-up and when I'm really beasting the sander, but if I'm only using it lightly it seems to fall below the sensing threshold and the vacuum shuts down; it's not really a problem, a quick blip of the sander switch and it fires up again. I don't get the same problem when I'm using the sander on my CTL-midi (it's a Mirka DEROS sander, so relatively low power draw). I love the DeWalt hose connectors which use a twist lock system that allows them to swivel but they're positively locked so never pop off; I've bought a few of the adaptors and they stay fitted to each tool for easy connection.

As an aside, when disposing of bags of extractor waste does it become hazardous waste? I'm not operating on a commercial basis, so the bags go out with the domestic collection.

Kev

 

[Roughcut]

I noticed that you mentioned noise levels were a concern?
The Nilfisk 30T is rated at 65 db and the Numatic you linked to is 79 db.
https://consumer.nilfisk.co.uk/en/produ ... 0%20T%20UK
http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-hml- ... -extractor

I use a Nilfisk and personally I find it to be one of the quietest vacuums I have used.
I grant you it still makes a noise but nothing like some others I have used.

 

[Ollie78]

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

KevM I take your point about the drop bin emptying and I might get one for the workshop, however its just another thing to carry into the job.

Roughcut, I think my nilfisk is noisy because its old and knackered however that numatic does seem loud at 79db. To be fair noise is not my primary concern as i am wearing earplugs and running another tool most of the time.

I have 3 more nilfisk bags left then I will decide what to do.

Cheers

 

[carlb40]

I have the midi and find it very quiet, in fact when i first got it and tried it out in my workshop - i couldn't hear it over my sander. A little tip i picked up from FOG re the filter bags. Cut the bottom open, fold the end over a suitable dowel and clamp up the end with bulldog clips. The bags can be emptied easily and reused, a lot reuse them 5 times or more.

 

[John15]

Ollie,
It's the twin motored Numatic that is quite noisy at 79db. I have the single motor NV750, probably the same as Carl, and it's fairly quiet at 70db.
John

 

[Ollie78]

A quick update. I spoke to Axminsters technical department today. The model they sell definitely has the auto on function. Oddly though they do not sell the bag recommended by Numatic the nvm 3bh but they do sell the nvm 4bh which is the same just a bit bigger.

Ollie

 

[DiscoStu]

Why can't you just use a bag in the drop bin under a cyclone. Surely then you'll get as much loose dust as you get with a bag in the Festool or Nilfisk? Although this doesn't solve the problem with extra stuff to carry.

 

[Dutch]

festool sell a reusable bag for around £100 depending on the extractor. I will be buying one in the near future as Ive been told they save a lot of money. obviously you have to factor in the time lost emptying and the health risks. I do have good respiratory equipment.

 

[Ollie78]

Well after more internet searching I discovered this thingy. http://www.toolovation.co.uk/product_p/axd000009.htm from oneida. So I could get a Festool ctl 26 and this cyclone thingy for about the same as the previously mentioned numatic from Axminster.

It does look like a nice solution and I like the fact you can just use a plastic bag to easily dispose of the stuff straight from the tub.

However still only L class filtration which apparently doesn`t even include MDF or lead paint, both of which I deal with.

On another note found out festool do a CTH machine at extra cost but it looks identical to the CTL spec wise apart from the filter so perhaps I could get a H class filter and stick it in the CTL machine.

More confusion.

 

[The Bear]

Don't buy that, you can make it for about £30 and some scrap wood.

dust-mite-and-systainer-drop-box-t74625.html?hilit=dust%20mite

Mark

 

[chippy1970]

My midi does mdf with no problem . I've been cutting and routing mdf with a midi for about 7 years now when I first got into festool. It's an excellent extractor and easily transported to site. Also I empty my bags quite a few times, it's easily done through the hole you don't have to cut the bag open

 

[Ollie78]

Wow Mark

That box is great, very nicely made.
This has given me more food for thought.

Can you use a plastic bag inside your drop box like the oneida one?

Ollie

 

[The Bear]

Hi

I don't use a bag but you could easily enough. You'ld just need to trap it with the lid.

Mark.