The end of the traditionally fitted drawer?

[Mr T]

Hi

I've recently been the end of year shows at Leeds College of Art and Burnley College. The standard has improved a lot at both institutions, Richard Jones especially should be proud of the show at Leeds after a difficult year.

One thing I have noticed is the drawer making and fitting. At neither of the shows did I see a traditionally make and fitted drawer, most were fitted on metal runners. Although I do not make such drawers as aften as I used to I think the making and fitting of a drawer teaches important lessons about attention to detail and accuracy. Is this the end of the traditionally fitted drawer!?

Also I think many students let their piece down by fitting cheap clunky drawer runners. I know students are working on a tight budget but money spent on good runners is well spent if you are wanting to impress at an exhibition.

Chrisw

 

[mailee]

I am surprised at that Chris. I would have thought that they would still teach the traditional methods of drawer fitting for the reasons you mention. Having said that most people now want easy glide runners or soft close so they are more maintenance free. I suppose in this case they are looking at teaching the students for modern cabinet fitting. I still think though that for pure exhibition you can't beat traditional runners. JMHO. :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

Hi

I've recently been the end of year shows at Leeds College of Art and Burnley College. The standard has improved a lot at both institutions, Richard Jones especially should be proud of the show at Leeds after a difficult year.

One thing I have noticed is the drawer making and fitting. At neither of the shows did I see a traditionally make and fitted drawer, most were fitted on metal runners. Although I do not make such drawers as aften as I used to I think the making and fitting of a drawer teaches important lessons about attention to detail and accuracy. Is this the end of the traditionally fitted drawer!?

Also I think many students let their piece down by fitting cheap clunky drawer runners. I know students are working on a tight budget but money spent on good runners is well spent if you are wanting to impress at an exhibition.

Chrisw

This surprises me too. I think that drawer runners have their place, but I would have thought that making and fitting a traditional drawer is almost a mandatory part of any half-respectable woodwork course. No doubt Richard will be along shortly to offer his views - Rob

 

[Benchwayze]

Maybe there is a movement towards drawers that can cope with years of over-filling; often with heavy, and unused stuff. That has probably caused the demise of more well-made drawers than any other factor. To be fair, good quality drawer-slides get around this problem, and with regular maintenance, don't let you down. It is now 2011 and some developments are here to stay.

Yes... I still like to see a traditional drawer, but the slides have their place.

John

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think cabinetmakers always face a dilema when making drawers. In my experience most people abuse furniture, and drawers in particular where they force in so much stuff (much of it heavy) that they end up damaging traditionally made drawers.

If I were running a course I think I would teach the students to make both traditional styles and the more modern ones using metal runners, so that they could offer customers both types.

At the end of the day I don't think most customers care much how furniture is made. They just want it to look nice and work.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Drawer slides keep costs down mainly by making fitting very simple. Fitting is unskilled (just read the instructions on the packet) which reduces labour costs.
They free up the design in terms of materials - you can use mdf or any old rubbish which simply wouldn't work with trad drawers as all the sliding functions are built into the factory made slide unit. No need for runners, kickers, careful drawer bottom detailing and fitting.

Nothing wrong with cheap furniture if that is what you want.

They also work nicely, but there has never been much of a problem with making trad drawers work.
But they are obsolecent; unserviceable and once failed they are scrap - if the cheap material of the drawers/carcase hasn't failed first.
Trad drawers will outlast them many times over. Also they can be maintained/repaired and will then last as long again. Like so many trad products - expensive, but very much cheaper in the long run.

 

[woodbloke]

I once saw a maker finishing off a very ornate jewelry unit that looked like a tall circular castle sitting on a cast acrylic base. This thing had a single small drawer at the top (no more than 200x200mm sq) and it was crying for a nice, delicate, traditionally made drawer but what did he fit...horrible, nasty runners that completely spoilt the look and feel of the piece. When I asked why these things were fitted, he just shrugged his shoulders and mumbled that this was the way he'd always done them (and he was a good maker)
I agree that in many circumstances, runners (especially if the loading on the drawer is heavy) are the way to do it, but in fine furniture, where the user expects to see a well fitted, traditionally made drawer when it's opened and instead sees some lump of ironmongery hanging on the side...my feeling is that they're completely out of place - Rob

 

[condeesteso]

I think traditional drawers will stay, but in the minority. Like slotted brass screws instead of cross-head, and dovetails, and floated tops with buttons in grooves (there'll be a proper name for them, I can make em, don't need to remember what they are called!!), and mouldings that a router can't make...

I actually hope that it's up to us lot (and many others around the world) to protect some of those traditions. Mass produced goods (incl drawer runners) have improved our lives in very many respects, but if we don't hang on to the traditions I think everyone then loses a very important part of our collective past.

 

[Benchwayze]

I think cabinetmakers always face a dilema when making drawers. In my experience most people abuse furniture, and drawers in particular where they force in so much stuff (much of it heavy) that they end up damaging traditionally made drawers.

If I were running a course I think I would teach the students to make both traditional styles and the more modern ones using metal runners, so that they could offer customers both types.

At the end of the day I don't think most customers care much how furniture is made. They just want it to look nice and work.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul,
You can make furniture for me any day!

John

 

[Benchwayze]

Jacob,

I agree there is nowt wrong with cheap furniture. Except that, for what it is, it's usually too expensive... If you get my drift!

For cheap read 'economy' BTW!

John :wink:

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Firstly, before Richard comes round to give me a Glasgow kiss, I would clarify that I was not saying that the tradiutional drawer is not taught in colleges, just that the peices at the end of year exhibitions did not show them. Possibly the traditional way is being taught but students are told "Well this is the old way but you can do it the modern way with runners".

Secondly. Rob said

I agree that in many circumstances, runners (especially if the loading on the drawer is heavy) are the way to do it, but in fine furniture, where the user expects to see a well fitted, traditionally made drawer when it's opened and instead sees some lump of ironmongery hanging on the side...my feeling is that they're completely out of place -

Rob started well but faded at the finish! I think many people now think that soft close and push to open are signs of quality and these are difficult to achieve traditionally. Also most runners are now concealed under the drawer so there is no metal showing.

I would like to see the colleges teaching a bit more discrimination in the quality of runners used.

Chris

 

[jimmy rivers]

Quality Runners and concealed hinges with all their soft close/ self close or push-to open dazzle help me rattle through projects, stay affordable, keep Mr Wolf from the door and are more often what today's client demands.

However I agree Chris there is nothing quite like the glove fit of a well made traditional drawer followed of course by that wiff of Leb Cedar and it certainly does keep the skills and tolerances honed. IMO I've always felt the origins of these construction methods are a very important foundation for the skills palette and should be taught on Furniture Making courses. At LCAD I believe there is focus on Contemporary and for it to be so it probably should be sympathetic to the materials, manufacture technology and the pace of it's time which IMHO forgives the runners

Paul C - At the end of the day I don't think most customers care much how furniture is made. They just want it to look nice and work.

I once spent an age hand cutting dovetails on draws for a client and he wasn't really bothered when I showed him :shock: A friend of mine uses a Woodrat in his shop ...might give that one a go :wink:

Keep the skills alive I say, hat's off to Richard J for doing so - Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Rob started well but faded at the finish!
Chris

Always the way Chris! :lol:

As an aside, I made stuff for Linley for a while and whilst there's a lot that's highly dubious with his furniture, all the drawers in it were made with fine (6 or 8mm quarter sawn oak) sides and C of L bottoms...not a metal runner in sight anywere (and all screws, even if hidden had to be trad slotted brass).
So I wonder if any of the 'top of the heap' (Barnsley, Varah, Wales & Wales, Savage etc) 'shops use metal runners. My guess is not many, if at all...but it's only a guess - Rob

 

[tomatwark]

I use runners in some of the furniture I make and also use traditional drawers, it really depends on what the client wants and also what their budget is.

Remember that the students that Leeds and the other colleges are teaching have to leave the course and be able to get a job, and as things like drawer runners and MDF are used increasingly in the furniture industry they should know how to use them.

If the Georgians, Victorians etc had them they would have used them.

At the end of the day although I like what I do, I am in business to make money.

Tom

 

[Sgian Dubh]

At neither of the shows did I see a traditionally make and fitted drawer, most were fitted on metal runners... I think the making and fitting of a drawer teaches important lessons about attention to detail and accuracy. Is this the end of the traditionally fitted drawer!?

Also I think many students let their piece down by fitting cheap clunky drawer runners. I know students are working on a tight budget... Chrisw

Chris, students are introduced to traditional drawer making in year 1-- their first practical project actually. Classically made drawers with slips, etc are made sometimes and exhibitied by students-- it depends on a range of factors and varies from year to year. I think you are correct in saying that there were no traditionally made drawers at this year's exhibition. I think there were just five pieces with drawers, not all of which were assessed as highly as they might have been if they'd been made or suspended better.

Economically priced slide selection by the students is almost always down to budgetary restraints, but I do manage to generally keep them away from the cheapest of all, such as those at the following link, which are serviceable but ugly. Slainte. http://www.isaaclord.co.uk/productDetai ... ntCat=1/17

 

[JasonMuteham]

So I wonder if any of the 'top of the heap' (Barnsley, Varah, Wales & Wales, Savage etc) 'shops use metal runners. My guess is not many, if at all...but it's only a guess - Rob

I saw this Barnsley piece http://www.barnsley-furniture.co.uk/superbasket/product/283/Games+Table at an exhibition and it has hidden metal runners on the drawers.

 

[condeesteso]

Quoting Jimmy: I've always felt the origins of these construction methods are a very important foundation for the skills palette

Yes, probably nailed it. Accept there is a place for the new, and a demand and economic argument for it - but if you can completely do a traditional drawer and have it fit so well you hear the air escape as you close it, then you can sure do the runner solution, and lots more besides.

One clear thought I have - if in future the standard is drawer runners, and everyone can do that, then suddenly one guy appears who can do more. I think that what we do is add value, and fitting a drawer runner adds value, but not a lot. Making a traditional drawer adds more value (because the skill-set is far more scarce) but the market for high added value is thin.
So most drawers will be on runners, a few will be traditional. The latter will cost way more, and a small market will pay the premium. The future investment pieces will not be on runners of course... but do many care??

 

[greggy]

if routers,woodrats and dovetail jigs were around in chippendale's day do you think he would have used them.




of course he would. they were all using the latest mdern hand tools of the day afterall.

 

[Jacob]

if routers,woodrats and dovetail jigs were around in chippendale's day do you think he would have used them.




of course he would. they were all using the latest mdern hand tools of the day afterall.

Er, so what?

A lot of people shop at IKEA.

 

[Benchwayze]

I get some ideas from IKEA. They have some nice designs here and there and there's no reason to make them in the same cobbled-together fashion!

John