Stripping oak sideboard - or not

[Tom61]

Hello to all.
Absolute beginner here.
Just got this from a second hand shop.
Guy said it came from a Poirot set and was about 90 years old.
Wife's watched every episode of Poirot at least 10 times so it was a no brainer for her.
She wants me to strip it back to new?
Can it be done?
I'm not bad at carpentry, and I can strip it down into its component parts to make things easier.
Guy said he wouldn't do that, he said to clean/feed it with equal parts of meths/turps/Danish oil mixed.
Said the patina would be lost otherwise.
Trouble is, the wife's only heard of fish and tatey patties, and wants it to look like new.
Any advice would be most gratefully accepted.
Thank you.

 

[blackrodd]

Hello and welcome, I would guess at 1930's or 1940's manufacture. See what others say,
This look like the original finish, what sort of re finish are you looking for?
I think it's thin veneer and the amount of work involved to scrape and get through the finish varnish and stain to bare wood will be long and arduous.
A pic of you're desired finish would probably be very helpful
Regards Rodders

 

[blackrodd]

Hello and welcome, I would guess at 1930's or 1940's manufacture. See what others say,
This look like the original finish, what sort of re finish are you looking for?
I think it's thin veneer and the amount of work involved to scrape and get through the finish varnish and stain to bare wood will be long and arduous.
A pic of you're desired finish would probably be very helpful
Regards Rodders

 

[Droogs]

hHave you explained to your missus, that if you do strip this back to bare and apply a modern stain/dye that it will have a very very reddish tinge to it that a lot of people nowadays don't like. i would suggest that you make up some reviver (recipes and links can be found in various threads here) on the back of the splashback as it will have the same finish as the rest of the piece but wont be seen if you gauva it up. by using the reviver you will take a lot of the crud off and be able to see the true colour of the piece. If you like it go ahead and strip the rest and then once cleaned off just shellac it up with lots and lots and lots of thin coats to bring it back to its original glory. for a piece thhis size averaging a couple of hours per night should take you about 3 weeks to finish the restoration. check out some French polishing techniques on youtube and then by the supplies needed. Best to go for "Blonde" shellac using a 2lb cut. HTH
droogs

 

[Tom61]

Thanks for the reply, Rodders.
The guy said there's no varnish in the finish?
I was told to use a Scotchbrite pad and meths, which would just soak everything out leaving the original wood?
From what you're saying it's not as simple as that.
Originally, the wife wanted it painting black, to match our other furniture.
I thought it would be a shame, as the wood would come up lovely and new after a bit of effort.
She's now decided to go for that and dump all our black furniture, and wants to replace it with the modern, light oak stuff available.
I'm guessing that's not feasible now, is it?
If not, what would you suggest for bringing it back to life?
I could maybe persuade her to go for darker oaks with the new furniture then, once she sees how nice it looks.
Many thanks.
Regards Tom

 

[Tom61]

Hi Droogs.
Seems you posted as I was writing.
I think you've answered the questions I posed.
I'll start researching now I've been pointed in the right directions.
Sweatbands at the ready!
Once it's done I'll post a photo.
Many thanks to both of you.
Kind regards,
Tom

 

[AndyT]

Fashions in furniture are as strange as any other fashions.

As said already, removing the current finish to get to bare wood will be a long difficult job with the risks of going through the veneer and of getting very uneven colours.

If you and your wife want something light coloured then your best bet might be to clean off any grease and dirt with a little white spirit on a rag and then paint it. You'd still have the curved shape and the shadow effect of the applied blocks.

 

[MusicMan]

Yes 1930s Art Deco. Quite nice, sacrilege to repaint or strip it! I have a 1930s set from my parents. Agreed you do have to be very careful with the thin veneer, and you probably have no chance of getting it back to a light oak finish without hitting the plywood underneath. As Andy says, clean - if you must - with white spirit or a commercial wax remover, but then best to use clear wax rubbed on with wire wool, buff when dry.I would just wax it to keep the patina.

Tell your wife that painted any colour would be horribly anachronistic for Poirot, and would ruin the value.

 

[Tom61]

Where to start!
Thanks for all the replies.

Droogs - Looked for a reviver recipe and found loads ... and loads of arguments about how to make it.
One thread suggested The English Polisher on YouTube.
Watched a few of his videos and he made it look easy. Sorry, I KNOW there's more to it, and some of you have spent a lifetime learning techniques, which I fully respect.
I'm 61 and just starting. Bit old to spend years learning the fine arts of a new trade.
He made a writing desk look amazing to my untrained eye in a matter of hours.
I'd be more than satisfied if mine looks half as good.

AndyT - Just spent a few happy hours dismantling it!
The only veneer is on the front of the doors, everything else is solid.
Having said that, I won't be sanding it back to bare wood.
Having Googled I prefer the look suggested on here.
The wife finally agrees.

MusicMan - As I've said, the wife now agrees!
I have a problem with the wire wool bit.
Which is a BIG problem given everyone says to use it.
I can't touch the stuff.
Just typing the words brings me out in goose bumps.
Bit unfortunate for someone who wants to restore furniture.
I'm going to use Scotchbrite and the sponges you get for washing up with the harder side for scrubbing pans.
I know I'm a wimp.
My dad used to make furniture. When I was small he used to get me to help him. When it came to the wire wool bit I failed.
Been the same ever since.

Thanks again to all for the replies.
Your time is much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Tom

PS. Wife not happy about the pile of oak in pieces on the lounge floor.
Women.

 

[AndyT]

It's often said that it's best to avoid wire wool on oak as the iron can react with tannins and make black marks. (I'm sceptical about whether it really matters after 80+ years but there's no need to take risks.)

So your Scotchbrite pads are just right.

 

[Tom61]

That's a relief, thanks.

I have another question.
The unit smells really musty.
I don't know if it's age or where its been stored.
Will the smell go once I've cleaned it all, or is there something else I'd need to do.
Thanks.
Tom.

 

[Adam9453]

There are various things you can put in it to mask the smell but I would expect once you have finished restoring it, the musty smell will be replaced by the smell of whatever finish you end up applying.

 

[Tom61]

Thanks for that Adam, I was hoping that would be the answer.

I think this will be the novice's final question -

I took the unit to pieces, as I said, to make it easier to clean. (Did I mention I'm a novice.)
As the top is solid, and the upright/splashback, as well, we decided I'd take that back to as new as possible.
I'm quite pleased with the result. Photo attached.
It's not quite finished yet.
As you can see, there are dark stains. I think they may be wax but I'm not sure.
It had quite a bit of candle wax on top, which I cleaned off.
Is there any way to get these out?
If not, so be it.
And... would the recommendation be to finish it with stain or the Blonde shellac, as suggested by Droogs, or just to wax it.
Or, are shellac and wax the same thing.
I'd love the grain to really stand out.
Thanks again.
Tom

 

[Droogs]

Shellac is a resin excreted by the Lac beetle larvae as they pupate. It is used as a sealer to close off the pores of the wood and then if wanted subsequent layers can be built up to a very high gloss shine (french polishing). It can be put on as just a couple of layers and then basically any finishing agent you want can then be put on top. It is a little more durable and heat resistant than wax alone. I suggested using blonde shellac as it would be the type to least likely cause a colour change in the piece, meaning it would blend in/compliment the more modern oak furniture you said you would be thining of using it with. Personally if you are thinking of a change in colour/shade etc then for me i would consider using a dye rather than a stain as this would enable you to get a closer colour match on any subsequent furniture pieces you may get as well.
As for the dark stains, if it's on a solid wood part rather than a veneered part, with your current skill level ( not cheek intended) to save risking damage may i suggest you use a card scraper to gently remove it, remembering not to concentrate just on the stains but to cover a wide border around it to avoid creating divits.
HTH

edit:
If you want a really great shine withoug the hours of practice at FP, then try using Halfords 2 pack laquer (guess where the name comes from) This is the clear coat that is put on top of car paint to make it shiny. Spray it on in thin coats, 5/6 thin is better than 1/2 thick. The added advantage is that it is very tough and heat resitant and waterproof

 

[Droogs]

ooh, quick ques Tom. Do you have central heating? if you do then I would advise you to give the inside faces at least one coat as well to help stabilize the unit and avoid any warpage/splitting probs as it acclimatises to your gaff

 

[Tom61]

Thanks Droogs, very informative and helpful.
Just watched a video of how to use a card scraper.
I'll get one today, if for no other reason than the finish is like glass!
Very impressed.
I like the idea of the dye. Said to the wife last night, I think I'm getting the bug for doing old furniture.
Can't wait to find other pieces to do.
Who knows, in 40 years I may know enough to stop pestering you guys!

The black marks I Googled, and found they lift out easily with Oxalic acid.
Trouble is, I can only find it online.
I want it now!
Does anyone know where it can be bought on the High Street, or some cleaning product that contains it?

BTW Droogs, I was giving the unit a coat everywhere, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
It's to try and get rid of the smell.
But, nice to know it'll help avoid the problems you mentioned.
2 birds, and all that.

Many thanks,
Tom

 

[Droogs]

you can get it at b&q if need be just look for decking cleaner

 

[MusicMan]

A dye will help change the colour effectively. But a stain will bring out the wood grain much better, especially in oak. I think this is because it is preferentially absorbed by the softer bits of the grain. Try on the underside of the top or the back of the riser before committing?

Keith

 

[Tom61]

Ordered Oxalic acid from Ebay.
My scrapers don't come until next week anyway so may as well wait.

MusicMan - You know how to make my brain hurt!
Droogs said to use a blonde shellac, then wax it.
Is shellac the same as a stain or dye?
I don't know the difference between a stain and a dye, but like the sound of stain bringing out the grain.
But is that what putting blonde shellac on would achieve?
Are you suggesting staining and then waxing?
Thank you.
Regards, Tom

 

[MusicMan]

Hi Tom, sorry about that. First shellac is neither a stain nor a dye, but (as Droogs said) a resin excreted by the female lac bug, which when dissolved in alcohol (meths in UK usually) forms a sealant and is also called French polish. Blonde shellac has been bleached before dissolution whereas natural shellac is a light brown shade.

I'm not surprised at you confusing stains and dyes as there is widespread confusion in the internet literature, and I learned it differently when young to what seems to be the common internet (American) usage now. So I suspect Droogs and I mean exactly the same, and I will now change my usage to what Wikipedia currently says. So we both suggest a dye.

The difference is in the size of the colour particles. In a dye they are extremely fine and suspended in a solvent which penetrates the wood. Hence the colour is distributed through the depth and as Droogs says the colour can be controlled and matched well. The grain is brought out nicely. In a stain, the colour particles are larger and sit on the top of the surface, like a paint. Examples of the dye are Colron wood dyes (which is what I suggest you use), and examples of the stain are polyurethane varnishes called 'Jacobean Oak' etc.

After dyeing the wood you need a protective finish, which could be shellac (French polish) and/or wax polish. French polish is the classic fabulous finish but does take a while to learn to do properly. In your original sideboard it would probably have been sprayed on). It resists dents very well if properly applied but not alcohol nor heat. I am a great fan of Fiddes Hard Wax Oil for furniture, as it combines a proper-looking wax finish with incredible resistance to heat, coffee, alcohol etc. I find four coats about right, rubbed down with fine sandpaper between each coat, and making the coats progressively thinner.

Wax gives some protection and if you think you can stop your guests putting wine glasses on the sideboard, this is fine. It is very hard to mess it up, and a few coats of a clear brushing or rubbing wax, buffed in between each coat, will make it look good.

I learned French polishing as a lad from my father, who learned it from a wonderful old-time cabinet maker who shared digs with him in the war, when they worked at ordnance factories. Funnily enough, in sorting out my workshop yesterday I found the recipe that the cabinet maker wrote out for my father around 75 years ago (and he probably learned it twenty years before that). I'll write it out if anyone is interested. Neither my father nor I have been professional woodworkers but we were professionally trained in this one regard!

Keith