Stanley No. 5½ planes

[Vann]

With (obviously) too much time on my hands, I've been thinking about Stanley No.5½ planes :-k :idea:

When Stanley (USA) introduced this size (in 1898 according to B&G), they were made with a 2¼” iron, as were the 605½ (Bedrock) and the 27½ (transitional)
The 27½ ceased production in 1934, and the 605½ in 1935. In 1939 (again according to B&G) Stanley changed the width of the iron to 2⅜” (to the width of its closest siblings, the #4½ , #6 and #7).

When Record began production in 1930/31 they copied the USA Stanleys of the day down to the last detail, including making their 05½ with a 2¼“ iron. According to Leslie Harrison’s “Record Tools” (the reprint of Record’s February 1938 catalogue No.15) Record changed their 05½ to a 2⅜” iron in 1937/38 (although said reprint still shows it with a 2¼“ iron).

In December 1936 Stanley bought out JA Chapman and began producing UK Stanley planes. Does anyone here have a 2¼“ UK Stanley No.5½ ? Or did Stanley UK beat everyone to the change and start with 2⅜” No.5½s from day one?

Just wondering...

(No I don't have one)

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Peter T]

I've got an oldish Record 5 1/2, but it's got a 2 3/8 wide iron, so I guess it's post 1937/38.

FWIW, my modern Lie Nielsen 5 1/2 also has a 2 3/8 iron.

 

[bugbear]

With (obviously) too much time on my hands, I've been thinking about Stanley No.5½ planes :-k :idea:

When Stanley (USA) introduced this size (in 1898 according to B&G), they were made with a 2¼” iron, as were the 605½ (Bedrock) and the 27½ (transitional)
The 27½ ceased production in 1934, and the 605½ in 1935. In 1939 (again according to B&G) Stanley changed the width of the iron to 2⅜” (to the width of its closest siblings, the #4½ , #6 and #7).

When Record began production in 1930/31 they copied the USA Stanleys of the day down to the last detail, including making their 05½ with a 2¼“ iron. According to Leslie Harrison’s “Record Tools” (the reprint of Record’s February 1938 catalogue No.15) Record changed their 05½ to a 2⅜” iron in 1937/38 (although said reprint still shows it with a 2¼“ iron).

In December 1936 Stanley bought out JA Chapman and began producing UK Stanley planes. Does anyone here have a 2¼“ UK Stanley No.5½ ? Or did Stanley UK beat everyone to the change and start with 2⅜” No.5½s from day one?

Just wondering...

(No I don't have one)

Cheers, Vann.

With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.

I think I would have spotted it, since I did notice "something unusual" when I saw my first Stanley USA instance.

BugBer

 

[Vann]

With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.

Thanks BB. But I'm sure Record did make them in 2¼“ size http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221154666753? ... 1432.l2649 ; the reference in Harrison's book and David Lynch's website http://www.recordhandplanes; and the cracked one I have in my hot hands.

But it's the development (or maybe the backward step) of the change from 2⅜” to 2¼“ that I am curious about (or "researching"). That's why I was wondering if Stanley UK made the move first - and therefore whether there is such a thing as a UK Stanley with a 2¼“ iron.

As a side note of interest (well to plane nutters like myself anyway ) is that Record changed their 05½ from 2¼“ wide, supposedly in 1937/38, then in 1939 they brought out the T5 also with a 2¼“ iron (only to change that to 2" in 1952). Maybe they had a bunch of leftover 2¼“ irons, lever-caps or frogs :roll:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[bugbear]

With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.

Thanks BB. But I'm sure Record did make them in 2¼“ size http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221154666753? ... 1432.l2649 ; the reference in Harrison's book and David Lynch's website http://www.recordhandplanes; and the cracked one I have in my hot hands.

Always willing to learn - thanks for that.

BugBear

 

[Dlow]

I have a stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 inch blade.
I think it is early 1900

If you want any info on it just ask.

David

 

[mickthetree]

I have a record 51/2 with a 1/4" blade. Ray Iles makes spare blades for them which Matthew sells over on workshop heaven.

It is my go to plane for most jobs. I will be selling my Record no.6 SS soon as I rarely use it. I just prefer the 5 1/2.

 

[bugbear]

I have a record 51/2 with a 1/4" blade.

Is it a plough plane?

(hat, coat etc)

BugBear

 

[mickthetree]

haha. Yes. Yes it is.

Of course I meant mine is 2 1/4" blade. Our friend Alf's favoured 51/2 size.

 

[Vann]

I have a stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 inch blade.

Thanks David, but if you're right about it being early 1900s (pre-1936), it'll be a USA model (or maybe Canadian?).

If it is English I like to know - that's exactly what I'm trying to find out - were any 2¼“ Stanleys made in England.

Thanks, Vann.

 

[Dlow]

Vann

I'm not exactly sure of the date.
How do i tell if it's made in the UK?

David

 

[Vann]

How do i tell if it's made in the UK?

Hi David. If it's made in UK it will have "MADE IN ENGLAND" cast in the sole - I'm not sure where on a No.5½, either behind the knob or behind the frog.

However, I suspect this is a wild goose chase. I'm coming to the conclusion (based on logic, not hard facts) that Patrick Leach is wrong :shock: when he writes (in B&G) "#5 1/2 Jack plane, 15"L, 2 1/4"W (2 3/8" 1939 on), 6 3/4lbs, 1898-1958 ". In 1933 the USA type #16 came out with redesigned frog and lever-cap, and a raised flat rib added to the heel and toe of the sole casting. Surely that is when they widened the No.5½ from 2¼“ to 2⅜”? Rather than manufacture new, narrow, frog and lever-cap patterns for the orphan No.5½.

It would then follow that UK Stanleys - which are based on the USA type #16 - would have been made 2⅜” wide from day one (while Records which are based on the USA type #14 - would have been made 2¼“ wide, until standardised in 1937/38).

So, has anybody (ANYBODY pleeeaase) got a UK Stanley 5½ with a 2¼“ iron to disprove my theory.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Benchwayze]

Darn Vann! I thought you might want one, or three number 5 and a halves ...

 

[GazPal]

The only UK made Stanley 5-1/2 I have has a 2-3/8" iron, although I do have a Sweetheart era 2-1/4" iron that came with it, but the iron was USA made and under-sized for the mouth width.

 

[Dovetaildave]

I gotta Stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 blade.
Pat marks are;
MAR 25-02
AUG 19-02
APR 19-10

Dosnt say anything else on the casting apart from Bailey at the toe and 5 1/2 at rear.

If that's any help.........it's got a perfectly formed Small Knob

 

[Vann]

I gotta Stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 blade.
Pat marks are;
MAR 25-02
AUG 19-02
APR 19-10

Thanks DD. Those patent dates make it a USA model - dating back to 1910-24

If that's any help.........it's got a perfectly formed Small Knob

Well at least you're not skiting... :mrgreen: (low knob would make it 1910 -18).

...I do have a Sweetheart era 2-1/4" iron that came with it, but the iron was USA made and under-sized for the mouth width.

Gary, I think those narrow irons are a little more valuable than the standard ones, tho' probably not sufficiently so to bother selling and buying another at 2⅜”.

I thought you might want one, or three number 5 and a halves ...

John, well in this kind of research one needs to have a decent sampling.... Actually I don't have a No.5½. :---) Mine are Records so they're No.05½s.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Dovetaildave]

Thanks for the dates Vann,
Never really have got the hang of dating these, B+G and all the rest, all very informative but still a bit beyond me.

Pm'ed

 

[Vann]

Never really have got the hang of dating these, B+G and all the rest...

I find http://www.rexmill.com easiest to use (not that it makes the planes go any faster - but I do find the history of these things interesting)

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Admiral]

The easiest flowchart to date US made Stanley planes is here:

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/st...ater planes in this type did have high knobs.

 

[Dovetaildave]

http://www.rexmill.com/

Once I managed to find my specs (Ctrl +), yeah good pictorial site, think its a type 11 or 12, knob,dates, no ring on casting.

Interestingly though, the frog is; flat fronted, just Stanley on lateral adj , and here it comes................ 5 1/2 cast into the right leg, on painted side/underside when viewed from behind.

Just looked on the latter (USA)no 6 and (England)no4, no numbers on either of them.

I couldn't see anything on the site about that. :?