stanley honing guide

[norrie499]

Hi I was wandering if anyone can help with some info. I recently bought a plane on e-bay and got a Stanley honing guide with it but am not sure how to use it and am not sure if there are parts missing. I've tried to load pictures but am useless at it . The gauge has the following PAT nos 605333 cheers in advance

 

[Chris152]

Is it the one in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXX0M9_LXU

 

[ED65]

That honing guide is a venerable old thing, very nice to have it bundled with the plane!

It is a very simple device so it could be missing nothing but look like it is, as far as I know this is a complete one for comparison on the Old Hand Tools site. I should probably add that a certain well known/infamous US site that sells old tools has one listed for nearly 200 bucks and calls it "very rare", but I don't think that's at all accurate or realistic!

Now whether you should make use of it is another thing. Sharpening freehand versus with a jig is as you might have seen since you joined a hot-button topic here and I'm not trying to ignite that debate because I feel anyone should use a guide if they want or need to. But this one specifically is perhaps not the easiest type to use, which may be part of the reason it was thrown in with the sale.

 

[David C]

It is a useful guide.

Follow the video above!

David

 

[Jacob]

That honing guide is a venerable old thing, very nice to have it bundled with the plane!

It is a very simple device so it could be missing nothing but look like it is, as far as I know this is a complete one for comparison on the Old Hand Tools site. I should probably add that a certain well known/infamous US site that sells old tools has one listed for nearly 200 bucks and calls it "very rare", but I don't think that's at all accurate or realistic!

Now whether you should make use of it is another thing. Sharpening freehand versus with a jig is as you might have seen since you joined a hot-button topic here and I'm not trying to ignite that debate because I feel anyone should use a guide if they want or need to. But this one specifically is perhaps not the easiest type to use, which may be part of the reason it was thrown in with the sale.

I've got one and thought it was about the easiest to use - slotted plane irons only. It also allows you to camber the blade.

 

[norrie499]

Hi the one I have is the one in ed65 post and after reading Jacobs reply I can see how it works Thank you all for the infomation (hammer)

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I have one somewhere - including the instructions, which I can't find at the moment - here's a pic:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0978/ ... _1000x.jpg

Cheers, W2S

 

[norrie499]

Hi Woody aye that's the one where I went wrong in my thinking was that it was for chisels but all is clear now

 

[Jacob]

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off.
I wonder what the date was of the patent?

 

[AndyT]

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off.
I wonder what the date was of the patent?

Applied for 1945, granted 1948.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... &KC=A&ND=4

 

[Tasky]

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.

TBH, I'm also considering a guide/jig for my chisel/iron/blade, for ^this exact reason - I've tried freehand so far, but checking the angles afterward it looks like they're all too far on the wrong side of 25º for my liking.

 

[bugbear]

They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off.

From my experience of rummaging in boxes at car boot sales and attending autions for 20 years (wow, is it that long) I'd say they're pretty common, although the commonest jig is the excellent Eclipse 36, which I'd say outnumbers it (and all others) around 8:1.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.

TBH, I'm also considering a guide/jig for my chisel/iron/blade, for ^this exact reason - I've tried freehand so far, but checking the angles afterward it looks like they're all too far on the wrong side of 25º for my liking.

Supposed to be 30º.

 

[ED65]

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.

TBH, I'm also considering a guide/jig for my chisel/iron/blade, for ^this exact reason - I've tried freehand so far, but checking the angles afterward it looks like they're all too far on the wrong side of 25º for my liking.

What are you considering the wrong side of 25°?

You're probably well familiar with this already but for anyone who isn't, chisels for different purposes are commonly honed at different angles. General bench chisels are often done just like is usual for plane irons, i.e. somewhere in the region of 30° which is what you get resting on the 25° grind angle and then "lift a bit". But paring chisels are generally shallower, occasionally under 20°. And mortise chisels often steeper, sometimes at 40° or higher.

Anyway, if your chisels are decent quality and you're commonly achieving say 23° that might be all right. It you get edge failures at that angle is very easy to hone an edge a smidge higher if need be, much harder to lower the angle again!

Oh P.S. instead of a honing guide proper you might find you get what you're seeking by making a simple 'takeoff ramp' sawn to the angle you want to use. You just rest the chisel/plane iron on this at the start of the stroke and move off.

 

[Tasky]

Supposed to be 30º.

Err... I know.

What are you considering the wrong side of 25°?

Less than 25º and nowhere near the 30º I was trying for.

You're probably well familiar with this already but for anyone who isn't, chisels for different purposes are commonly honed at different angles.

I have heard this and may well end up doing so one day... but for now, for my first two sets of proper chisels, I feel I should at least try to get within a couple degrees of the standard 30º before I start introducing all manner of different angled sets for specific tasks. :wink:
Walk before I go running, sort of thing.

 

[ED65]

Not to worry, shallower is good so this is easily rectified. You can hone a tiny bevel at the correct angle without any difficulty (and in case it's a concern, your chisels shouldn't be materially weaker despite there being less steel behind the edge).

Pick something you have now, and:

• Rest the current bevel you've created on your stone/plate/paper and just lift the back up a little. This will present just the edge to the abrasive.
• Stroke a few times. That's enough to produce a small secondary bevel, even on slow-cutting oilstones.
• Back off the blade, then do a couple more alternating swipes on bevel and back.
• Check the wire edge is gone, strop if you have a strop and you're done.

For the future, a small alternation in your stance might be enough to hone more steeply. You may be reaching out too far from your torso currently, try honing closer to your belly. Or on a lower surface if one is available.

 

[Jacob]

Supposed to be 30º.

Err... I know.

What are you considering the wrong side of 25°?

Less than 25º and nowhere near the 30º I was trying for.

You're probably well familiar with this already but for anyone who isn't, chisels for different purposes are commonly honed at different angles.

I have heard this and may well end up doing so one day... but for now, for my first two sets of proper chisels, I feel I should at least try to get within a couple degrees of the standard 30º before I start introducing all manner of different angled sets for specific tasks. :wink:
Walk before I go running, sort of thing.

You need to get into visualising 30º. Try and see it as half of the internal angle of an equilateral triangle, or a third of a right angle, or a gradient of 1/2 (1 vertical 2 up the slope). Draw it out on a piece of paper - have a card or a board with it drawn on, and so on.
I wouldn't bother about other angles - the need is largely mythological. You do need a sharp edge but nobody needs 20º (unless you are a barber!).

 

[Tasky]

You need to get into visualising 30º. Try and see it as half of the internal angle of an equilateral triangle, or a third of a right angle, or a gradient of 1/2 (1 vertical 2 up the slope). Draw it out on a piece of paper - have a card or a board with it drawn on, and so on.

Sounds awfully complicated and a bit like Buddhist meditation... I just got a protractor out and measured it along the side of a bit of wood!! :lol:

You can hone a tiny bevel at the correct angle without any difficulty.

TBH, that might have been part of the problem - I think I've ended up with a slightly convex bevel. Not a massive problem trying a reset or anything, as these are the cheap Lidl chisels anyway.

For the future, a small alternation in your stance might be enough to hone more steeply. You may be reaching out too far from your torso currently, try honing closer to your belly. Or on a lower surface if one is available.

I used a workmate on its lowest setting, which was already a mistake as my lower back will testify! #-o (hammer)

 

[ED65]

I going to challenge Jacob here to take two chisels, ideally the same size but if he doesn't have any duplicates say a 1/2" and a 3/4" so they're fairly close together in size, and hone one to 20° and the other to 40° and compare how they do at paring and chopping deep mortises in oak or a wood harder than that.

He'll find out the only way he'll accept that a difference in performance between the two is anything but "mythological".

And the great thing about this is he can't use any excuses like it would take him too long, hasn't he said a million times how quick and easy freehanding is, how nobody needs a grinder? So manually forming a new 20° bevel won't take him but a few minutes and minimal effort 8)

 

[ED65]

I think I've ended up with a slightly convex bevel.

Slightly convex is no problem, it won't interfere with adding a secondary bevel.

I used a workmate on its lowest setting, which was already a mistake as my lower back will testify! #-o (hammer)

Ah okay, well definitely not anything lower than that!