John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Do the course! A lot of people seem to find them useful.
Not that I've done one, my last speeding ticket was over 40 years ago, and I don't think they'd been invented.
Speed Awareness Course
- Thread starter Cordy
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Not that I've done one, my last speeding ticket was over 40 years ago, and I don't think they'd been invented.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
There's an easy solution to that; just do 140mph, then you don't need to do as many miles to make up the 15 minutes
Put your ego back in it's box and do the course.
Better for everyone.
throbscottle
Established Member
That's what the 10% +2 is for (actually 10% +1.9 for practical purposes - be careful!). I think they give you a "credit" of 10% +1, and "penalise" the camera by -1.
It's not mandatory though, the local authority can choose not to apply it. Hence your guy who was doing 42, Cordy.
I seem to get done for something every year, if it's not speeding it's a bus lane. I'm quite well trained in speed awareness now... Perils of doing 24k miles a year....
No wonder some people are so bloody infuriatingly careful. Bet they don't get fines!
Agent_zed
Established Member
Best way is to watch a dashcam show before you go out. I used to watch one that was on in the morning before driving to work. Once you've seen how many near misses and how easy it is to turn a car on it's roof you think about your driving slightly more for that day at least.
Yorkieguy
Established Member
I guess I ought to declare an interest. I was a magistrate for 20 years until 2008, during which time I sat on 20,000 or so cases, half of which were in the motoring court dealing with the full range of motoring offences. Where speeding offence arose, in part, it seemed to be that many motorists see speed limits not as 'limits' but as 'targets'. Where accidents occur, it's usually not just due to speed, but not driving in accordance with the conditions of the road, driving too close to the vehicle in front, general poor observations and distractions - fiddling with the radio, sat-nav, on the phone, kids/dog in the car etc.
Time and again I heard the same comments in mitigation - 'not a deliberate intent to flout the law', 'my speed drifted up in a moment in inattentiveness', there was no traffic, I drive hundreds of miles a week and this is my first offence in thirty years, and so on.
You usually only end up in court for speeding if you're doing more that 30 in a 20 limit, 40 in a 30 limit, 55 in a 40, 90 in a 70 limit. Below that, its a fixed penalty of 3 point and a fine, (unless you already have nine points and stand to be disqualified). If you exceed the above limits, (EG 41 - 50 or above in a 30 limit), you're off to court and looking at 6 points or 7 - 28 days disqualification plus a hefty fine. At those limits it's not down to inattentiveness or bad luck, but bad driving, and a bad attitude to road safety.
Really, if you're doing anything in a car which - if you did it on your driving test would cause you to fail - you'd best not do it. As to speed awareness courses, to an extent, whether or not you are offered one can be a tad random as it depends on whether there are places. The courses aren't punitive or demeaning, are well run, and the chances are that you won't offend again.
The Magistrate Sentencing Guidelines for the whole range of offences aren't secret - you can view them at his link, which explains how magistrates consider the mitigating and aggravating factors of both the offence and offender: Magistrates’ courts sentencing guidelines – Sentencing
Despite what Daily Mail Readers might think, 'a slap on the wrist' isn't listed, nor a 'got-off-with' ('got off with a fine', 'got off with probation,'), and a 'suspended sentence' does not mean hanging, which ended in 1965.
When I was approaching 80, I decided to take a mature driver's assessment with the Institute of Advanced Motorists. I went on to take the course, culminating in the Advance Driving Test conducted by a serving police officer examiner, which I was rather chuffed to pass. I can truly recommend it. My main fault was that having spent so many years as a magistrate, subconscious paranoia of ending up in court had caused me to drive like a funeral director. Driving is much more enjoyable now, and I never get impatient when in traffic, because I AM traffic!
Time and again I heard the same comments in mitigation - 'not a deliberate intent to flout the law', 'my speed drifted up in a moment in inattentiveness', there was no traffic, I drive hundreds of miles a week and this is my first offence in thirty years, and so on.
You usually only end up in court for speeding if you're doing more that 30 in a 20 limit, 40 in a 30 limit, 55 in a 40, 90 in a 70 limit. Below that, its a fixed penalty of 3 point and a fine, (unless you already have nine points and stand to be disqualified). If you exceed the above limits, (EG 41 - 50 or above in a 30 limit), you're off to court and looking at 6 points or 7 - 28 days disqualification plus a hefty fine. At those limits it's not down to inattentiveness or bad luck, but bad driving, and a bad attitude to road safety.
Really, if you're doing anything in a car which - if you did it on your driving test would cause you to fail - you'd best not do it. As to speed awareness courses, to an extent, whether or not you are offered one can be a tad random as it depends on whether there are places. The courses aren't punitive or demeaning, are well run, and the chances are that you won't offend again.
The Magistrate Sentencing Guidelines for the whole range of offences aren't secret - you can view them at his link, which explains how magistrates consider the mitigating and aggravating factors of both the offence and offender: Magistrates’ courts sentencing guidelines – Sentencing
Despite what Daily Mail Readers might think, 'a slap on the wrist' isn't listed, nor a 'got-off-with' ('got off with a fine', 'got off with probation,'), and a 'suspended sentence' does not mean hanging, which ended in 1965.
When I was approaching 80, I decided to take a mature driver's assessment with the Institute of Advanced Motorists. I went on to take the course, culminating in the Advance Driving Test conducted by a serving police officer examiner, which I was rather chuffed to pass. I can truly recommend it. My main fault was that having spent so many years as a magistrate, subconscious paranoia of ending up in court had caused me to drive like a funeral director. Driving is much more enjoyable now, and I never get impatient when in traffic, because I AM traffic!
I get what you're saying and probably will do the course. Just so bloody angry though.
I wouldn't feel so patronised if I was a repeat offender, or if I'd been doing 50mph in a 30........ but 36 in a 30, and a 1st time offence with a 45yr clean licence ? Seems like unnecessary overkill and a money grabbing exercise.
17 thousand camera activations on that stretch (500yds) of road in a year ! That averages to 45+ fines per day !!
Lons
Established Member
I'm not contradicting anything you said in your post but it should be noted that driving too slowly can also cause a fail. Just saying.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Just do it! I think everybody should do it sooner or later. The course is very very sensible and useful.
No point in making excuses - you got caught not paying enough attention - like lots of other people including me.
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Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
"You might be driving slowly to ensure that you pass your test, but this is misguided, since where you drive hesitantly your examiner will see a lack of skill. Believe it or not, slow driving is likely to be marked as a fail-worthy driving fault, in the same category as stalling the engine or mounting the pavement."I'm not contradicting anything you said in your post but it should be noted that driving too slowly can also cause a fail. Just saying.
Seems fairly sensible to me.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I was annoyed when I got done ("why aren't they catching the real criminals" etc etc), and yes, clocking people over the limit is easy/lazy policing, but it is still breaking the law so we just have to accept the consequences.
I previously mentioned that I found the speed awareness course pretty good, and it's interesting to note that others have had the same experience; so I'd strongly suggest doing it over taking the points.
On the subject of speeding in 30 limits; the wife (NHS doctor) once noted to me that, if hit at 30mph most kids survive. If hit at 40mph most kids do not survive. The rather more chilling part was the assessment that those hit at 40mph who do survive are - I'm sanitising the language here - not necessarily lucky to survive (given the severity of the injuries). It's something that's always sat in the back of my mind when travelling through 30 zones.
Richard_C
Established Member
What follows may be helpful even though not directly relevant to courses. Yes, motorway phones are c 1 mile apart but it can vary with terrain and junctions. What doesn't vary though are the marker posts, although some may be missing mid junction. Small white post, blue type figures.
They are serial numbered from the official start of the motorway. The top number is Km, the lower one is 100m. So, example, a marker post on the M6 might have a 40 as the top number, with a 3 below. That means it 40.3 Km from the start. Next post will be 40 with 4 beneath (if you are going South it will be 40, 2). So it will go 40,4, 5 etc then 41,0, 1 etc. On a quiet stretch you can time yourself between 10 or 20 markers, no need to count just note the numbers, and calibrate your speedometer.
The markers are triangular, and the least known but potentially most useful feature is on the side away from the carriageway, an arrow pointing towards the nearest phone. You should never need to walk more than half a mile, if you made a random choice it could be 0.9 miles. Less relevant in the days of mobile phones but helpful years ago.
A motorcyclist on my stretch of (30mph) road was apparently clocked at 80mph. Hard to believe but I guess early hours / empty road etc it does happen.
Assuming he had no previous convictions; are the penalty points / fine the same for another driver doing 35mph (with no previous convictions) on that road ?
Assuming he had no previous convictions; are the penalty points / fine the same for another driver doing 35mph (with no previous convictions) on that road ?
I think most of us think that the speed awareness course helps refresh our driving knowledge and I do wonder if there is some database out there that logs attendence in that once a period of time has elapsed then at the first opportunity you get caught for speeding at only slightly over the limit and offered the course but in the first few years after doing one then unless you are really over the limit you are more likely to not be done, it is a pattern I have noticed and seems to be every four years.
Yorkieguy
Established Member
Anyone doing 80 (10 MPH above the national speed limit) in a 30 limit would be off to court, receive a heavy fine and almost certainly a ban of at least six months. Also possibly a dangerous driving conviction.
You can view the sentencing guidelines at the link I posted earlier. Whatever the crime, the penalty is based on the ‘principle of proportionality’ - the more serious the offence, the greater the penalty.
I’m bemused why anyone doing 36 in a 30 limit (+20%). should express righteous indignation when he’s the architect of his own misfortune. Any money raised by speed cameras isn’t a ‘money making scam’ - consider it a tax on delinquent behaviour. it’s spent on road safety initiatives.
The fines all go into the general government coffers.
Richard_C
Established Member
But the profit from running speed awareness courses goes to private companies. (Not the tutors, they are mostly freelancers). Seems wrong to me for all kinds of reasons.
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Privatisation is a major feature of current government policy. I agree, it seems wrong to me for all kinds of reasons and in general is an abject failure.
These courses seem to be working quite well though. There are exceptions.
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As mentioned 20 mpg here in wales in urban areas ( rubbish report says we are not driving any slower- that may be true in Cardiff at rush hour but not in mid wales )
where we are it is being imposed reasonably sensibly with 30 still where houses only on one side of the road but it does mean you are watching out for speed signs and concentrating more on your speedo and not on the traffic and pedestrians
my analogue speedo is way out so rely more on my sat nav for accurate speed
where we are it is being imposed reasonably sensibly with 30 still where houses only on one side of the road but it does mean you are watching out for speed signs and concentrating more on your speedo and not on the traffic and pedestrians
my analogue speedo is way out so rely more on my sat nav for accurate speed
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