Speed Awareness Course

[Phil Pascoe]

My apology’s didn’t realise you were such an old git. Why where you on a 250 at 25?

You could learn on a 250cc then.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

17th century more like.

Ho ho ho. You are a wag.

 

[ScottyT]

Last time I got caught speeding it was 1979. I was on a KH250 Kwacker in the dark in torrential rain and a car following me kept getting too close to my rear. I kept to 30mph in the limit and speeded up when I left it. The car kept getting within feet of me then dropping back, then speeding up again and repeating the exercise. As we approached another limit he fell well back then nearly ran into me, he was so close. The guy was dangerous and being a total pillock so I speeded up .................. and he put his blue flashing light on and booked me.

Did it ever run a hot plug on the middle cylinder?
I’ve got a few 70’s two strokes, I use a 73’ T500 as my summer daily transport for work, it turns the journey into an occasion every time. No Tax, no MOT and 60 quid insurance for the year. That’s my kind of motoring.
I would love to have a go on the 750 triple just to see how outrageous it really was/is.
Never been caught speeding on any of them though

Scotty

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend had the big triple with a back sprocket the size of dustbin lid - it would hit 50mph in about 2 seconds. but the top line wasn't much more. I never had a problem with the middle cylinder - I mirror polished the piston crowns so no carbon stuck around them, after I did that I got 3000m to a set of plugs rather than the usual 400m. 16,000m in two years. Six rear tyres, six chains and five sets of sprockets and I still got 42mpg - 44mpg. Even the dealer didn't believe that - 30mpg was quite common.

 

[ScottyT]

fantastic stuff, the sound and the smell is hard to be beat. I have heard the Kwaks actually had plug holders under the seat they fouled them that regularly!!!
Old and Vintage motorcycles

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They did indeed have a compartment for a spare set of plugs.

 

[paulrbarnard]

My friend had the big triple with a back sprocket the size of dustbin lid - it would hit 50mph in about 2 seconds. but the top line wasn't much more. I never had a problem with the middle cylinder - I mirror polished the piston crowns so no carbon stuck around them, after I did that I got 3000m to a set of plugs rather than the usual 400m. 16,000m in two years. Six rear tyres, six chains and five sets of sprockets and I still got 42mpg - 44mpg. Even the dealer didn't believe that - 30mpg was quite common.

Those were the days. my era too

 

[sploo]

I’m out in San Francisco at the moment and it is noticeable that driverless cars are starting to gain a foothold. It’s scary when one pulls up alongside you for the first time.

They are coming and will change the game massively. Why own a car when you can just have one turn up when you need it? They are not subject to the mood of the driver. They won’t engage in tit for tat testosterone fuelled incidents that escalate into road range. Best of all they are proving to be safer than humans are at driving.

Come on though; if we get self-driving cars surely we want an option to change the AI to "C*ck in an Audi" mode - whereby it turns off the indicators, tailgates, makes suicide overtakes, and exits on motorway slip roads straight from lane 3

 

[Fergie 307]

Did it ever run a hot plug on the middle cylinder?
I’ve got a few 70’s two strokes, I use a 73’ T500 as my summer daily transport for work, it turns the journey into an occasion every time. No Tax, no MOT and 60 quid insurance for the year. That’s my kind of motoring.
I would love to have a go on the 750 triple just to see how outrageous it really was/is.
Never been caught speeding on any of them though

Scotty

RD 250 in my case, great fun until I binned it on a roundabout. I swear there was a patch of oil or something Had a go on a mates RD500, now there was a scary fast machine, certainly had to refine the old throttle control if you wanted to keep the front wheel on the ground. When that thing hit the sweet spot you just hung on for dear life, but with a heck of a grin. And the noise, like a chain saw on steroids! Later had several MZ 250s as commuters, loads of tuning potential and pretty much indestructible. Still have a Saxon that comes out in the summer.

 

[ScottyT]

RD 250 in my case, great fun until I binned it on a roundabout. I swear there was a patch of oil or something Had a go on a mates RD500, now there was a scary fast machine, certainly had to refine the old throttle control if you wanted to keep the front wheel on the ground. When that thing hit the sweet spot you just hung on for dear life, but with a heck of a grin. And the noise, like a chain saw on steroids! Later had several MZ 250s as commuters, loads of tuning potential and pretty much indestructible. Still have a Saxon that comes out in the summer.

I know the RD’s quite well and have covered some miles on the 350 but do not own one, I am lucky enough to have the predecessors to the RD though, the YDS7250 and the YR5350. Very similar machines to the RD, disc brakes and reed valves being about the only meaty talking points between them.
They are screamers compared to my daily T500 though which is a much more relaxed and lazy machine especially for a 2 stroke but will still get up and go when it’s wound up for a 50 year old!
I am also interested in British bikes particularly Vincent’s but I feel I may be drifting slightly off topic here though…..I like you am more of a summer rider. Great to hear about the RD

Scotty

 

[Fergie 307]

Used to ride all year round commuting to work but at my age the attraction of water dribbling down your neck has rather worn off Still have a few bikes, which come out most summers. BMW K100 RT, Suzuki GSX750ES, and a couple of MZ two strokes. Always wanted an old IFA BK350, flat twin two stroke. I was offered one in need of a little tlc years ago for not a lot but talked myself out of it, now good ones fetch quite a bit. Maybe a retirement project

 

[Yorkieguy]

You're imagining it. I didn't say I overtook just before a 30mph limit. I was clocked at 34mph exactly in line with the limit sign If you go back through the posts I said I use engine braking along with normal brakes, had I indeed braked firmly I would have been well under the limit.

The tractor was tootling along weaving side to side with a large trailer full of manure at around 25mph, I was immediately behind him and there was a queue of traffic behind me, it's a winding country road and I overtook, perfectly safely at the first straight bit of road and there was absolutely nothing wrong with braking from 60 to 30mph in front of a vehicle doing 25. Even if I had braked hard I was far enough in front for him not to catch up.

So had you done that on your driving test, do you think you’d have passed, bearing in mind that if you had your eyes on ‘full beam’ as well as ‘dipped beam’ the 30 MPH sign on a straight road should have been visible maybe 1/4 mile away?

And having attended a speed awareness course and been able to reflect on the manner of your driving and maybe gained some useful tips, faced with the same situation again, would you do the same manoeuvre? Or was the only useful outcome of the course that you didn’t get points and hence, it didn’t increase you insurance premium?

With good observations, when a 30MPH sign comes into view, to decelerate from 60MPH should hardly need much braking, and certainly not ‘braking firmly’.

When you say you were ‘immediately behind him’, and ‘there’s nothing wrong in braking from 60 to 30MPH in front of a vehicle doing 25 MPH’, the thinking and braking distance for an average family car is stated as 23 Metres (75 ft) - five car lengths. You should not pull in front of a vehicle until you can fully see it in your rear view mirror.

I don’t think anything I or anyone else can say will alter your view that your driving was up to standard, and that you were in some way, a victim - not an offender, because that is how you are coming across, leastways, to me.

Not trying to be argumentative or provocative - just disagreeing with your portrayal of the offence, for the reasons stated.

 

[Lons]

So had you done that on your driving test, do you think you’d have passed, bearing in mind that if you had your eyes on ‘full beam’ as well as ‘dipped beam’ the 30 MPH sign on a straight road should have been visible maybe 1/4 mile away?

And having attended a speed awareness course and been able to reflect on the manner of your driving and maybe gained some useful tips, faced with the same situation again, would you do the same manoeuvre? Or was the only useful outcome of the course that you didn’t get points and hence, it didn’t increase you insurance premium?

With good observations, when a 30MPH sign comes into view, to decelerate from 60MPH should hardly need much braking, and certainly not ‘braking firmly’.

When you say you were ‘immediately behind him’, and ‘there’s nothing wrong in braking from 60 to 30MPH in front of a vehicle doing 25 MPH’, the thinking and braking distance for an average family car is stated as 23 Metres (75 ft) - five car lengths. You should not pull in front of a vehicle until you can fully see it in your rear view mirror.

I don’t think anything I or anyone else can say will alter your view that your driving was up to standard, and that you were in some way, a victim - not an offender, because that is how you are coming across, leastways, to me.

Not trying to be argumentative or provocative - just disagreeing with your portrayal of the offence, for the reasons stated.

Several things I'd pick up on there.

You have no idea of the stretch of road I was travelling on.
I was definitely far enough in front of the tractor, I overtook him at 60mph so within the limit, he was travelling at 25 ish so the difference in our speeds was 35mph, in reality it was a quick overtake and I took my foot off the accelerator and let the engine brake the car and of course I could see the signs, I didn't need to in fact as I know the road very well and travel it regularly. I braked normally, not firmly, the tractor was far enough behind and in fact another car had overtaken him anyway, clearly I misjudged or I would have braked a little harder, wouldn't have taken much as it was 4mph and as I said I was down to 30 within a few yards. Both one of the officials on the course and my traffic cop neighbour said it was highly unusual to be booked for so little over.

However as I said I accepted it without complaint, held my hands up and took the punishment without argument. I didn't say I was a victim, far from it, because I know the road so well I had no excuse and didn't ever intend to make one.

If you're saying that drivers don't apply brakes when approaching a 30mph zone from a 60 then you're not living in the real world. some of them positively stamp on them at the last minute, I don't and didn't. I probably would have failed a test because of the 4mph over but certainly wouldn't have for making a perfectly safe overtaking move on a clear, straight stretch of road. A country road that is busy with many corners and blind summits, high hedges and junctions, I didn't overtake on any of those unlike other drivers as witnessed frequently.

Your view is from behind a magistrates desk and I respect that but you must also realise that to evaluate the situation correctly you need all the facts in front of you, a screenshot of the stretch of road, position of vehicles, road conditions so yes I disagree with your assessment, but who cares, this is a woodworking forum allegedly and this is going nowhere fast so I won't waste any more time on it

 

[Jacob]

Several things I'd pick up on there.

You have no idea of the stretch of road I was travelling on.
I was definitely far enough in front of the tractor, I overtook him at 60mph so within the limit, he was travelling at 25 ish so the difference in our speeds was 35mph, in reality it was a quick overtake and I took my foot off the accelerator and let the engine brake the car and of course I could see the signs, I didn't need to in fact as I know the road very well and travel it regularly. I braked normally, not firmly, the tractor was far enough behind and in fact another car had overtaken him anyway, clearly I misjudged or I would have braked a little harder, wouldn't have taken much as it was 4mph and as I said I was down to 30 within a few yards. Both one of the officials on the course and my traffic cop neighbour said it was highly unusual to be booked for so little over.

However as I said I accepted it without complaint, held my hands up and took the punishment without argument. I didn't say I was a victim, far from it, because I know the road so well I had no excuse and didn't ever intend to make one.

If you're saying that drivers don't apply brakes when approaching a 30mph zone from a 60 then you're not living in the real world. some of them positively stamp on them at the last minute, I don't and didn't. I probably would have failed a test because of the 4mph over but certainly wouldn't have for making a perfectly safe overtaking move on a clear, straight stretch of road. A country road that is busy with many corners and blind summits, high hedges and junctions, I didn't overtake on any of those unlike other drivers as witnessed frequently.

Your view is from behind a magistrates desk and I respect that but you must also realise that to evaluate the situation correctly you need all the facts in front of you, a screenshot of the stretch of road, position of vehicles, road conditions so yes I disagree with your assessment, but who cares, this is a woodworking forum allegedly and this is going nowhere fast so I won't waste any more time on it

Are you writing a book about it? Could be a hit, it's really, really, interesting!

 

[paulrbarnard]

Several things I'd pick up on there.

You have no idea of the stretch of road I was travelling on.
I was definitely far enough in front of the tractor, I overtook him at 60mph so within the limit, he was travelling at 25 ish so the difference in our speeds was 35mph, in reality it was a quick overtake and I took my foot off the accelerator and let the engine brake the car and of course I could see the signs, I didn't need to in fact as I know the road very well and travel it regularly. I braked normally, not firmly, the tractor was far enough behind and in fact another car had overtaken him anyway, clearly I misjudged or I would have braked a little harder, wouldn't have taken much as it was 4mph and as I said I was down to 30 within a few yards. Both one of the officials on the course and my traffic cop neighbour said it was highly unusual to be booked for so little over.

However as I said I accepted it without complaint, held my hands up and took the punishment without argument. I didn't say I was a victim, far from it, because I know the road so well I had no excuse and didn't ever intend to make one.

If you're saying that drivers don't apply brakes when approaching a 30mph zone from a 60 then you're not living in the real world. some of them positively stamp on them at the last minute, I don't and didn't. I probably would have failed a test because of the 4mph over but certainly wouldn't have for making a perfectly safe overtaking move on a clear, straight stretch of road. A country road that is busy with many corners and blind summits, high hedges and junctions, I didn't overtake on any of those unlike other drivers as witnessed frequently.

Your view is from behind a magistrates desk and I respect that but you must also realise that to evaluate the situation correctly you need all the facts in front of you, a screenshot of the stretch of road, position of vehicles, road conditions so yes I disagree with your assessment, but who cares, this is a woodworking forum allegedly and this is going nowhere fast so I won't waste any more time on it

So much self justification. The ONLY relevant information was you got caught speeding. There is no justification it is an absolute offence.

 

[Jester129]

And you have NEVER driven over the limit? Sounds a little sanctimonious to me.
I think that Lons is right, this thread ought to be closed now.

 

[paulrbarnard]

And you have NEVER driven over the limit? Sounds a little sanctimonious to me.
I think that Lons is right, this thread ought to be closed now.

If you had read the thread you would see that I have and attended a course.

The problem is people, while admitting they were speeding, continue to justify why their actions were safe. That’s the entire point of the speed awareness courses. It’s to change that attitude. There is no justification for speeding. It’s a blatant case of someone putting their own attitude ahead of others.

 

[artie]

And you have NEVER driven over the limit? Sounds a little sanctimonious to me.
I think that Lons is right, this thread ought to be closed now.

I've asked before and I'll ask again.

Why ask for a thread to be closed?

If you don't like the content or the opinions expressed in it you don't have to partake.

 

[Jacob]

I've asked before and I'll ask again.

Why ask for a thread to be closed?

If you don't like the content or the opinions expressed in it you don't have to partake.

Yes and I'm waiting for the next episode in Lons's amazing adventure.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Maybe a bit tangential but interesting article here on how cars can/are being made safer for pedestrians ...

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