Some questions about first workbench

[stubtoe]

Hi,

I'm in the process of planning a very simple, first, workbench as my first (ever!) woodworking project.

I'm probably going to go for a simple MDF/hardboard top to keep things nice and simple, with two vices front left and on the end using cast iron woodworking Record style.

My questions (so far!) are:

1. I've read up about the pros cons of round vs square and have opted to go for round as I think this will be simplest and easiest with my choice of work top. Do I need to taper the round dog holes in the same way as I've read you need to do for square dog holes i.e. by approx. 2 degrees towards the end vice?

2. Also, and this is probably a very silly newbie question, but how do you stop the round dogs from dropping through the dog holes when inserted (with square ones I've seen people make use of a wood/metal spring to stop this)???

3. What's the best way of attaching the MDF/hardboard worktop to the base?

4. Which would be better, sled feet or posts end grain on to the floor?

Apologies for all the questions!

Jonny

 

[LuptonM]

I'd buy/read Christopher Scwarz's book on Workbench construction and design if I were u- strongly advised.
I personally would not go for metal jawed vices as to get them flush with the workbench would take more work than the ones you have to make wood jaws for and the metal jaw could possible damage your tools

Round dogs usually have a springy wedge down their length to stop them falling out of the holes

 

[custard]

Christoper Schwarz and Scott Landis have both written some truly excellent books on workbenches. But I doubt they're the best books for you as they mainly concentrate on the more complex and elaborate benches, they assume quite a lot of knowledge on the part of the reader, and they're fairly light when it comes to plans, cutting lists, and constructional methods. Schwarz and Landis are more about inspiration, workbench history, and workbench design philosophy...with a hefty dose of "workbench porn" thrown in for good measure!

The best book for you by a country mile is Sam Allen's "Making Workbenches"

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-Workben ... 334&sr=1-4

Sam Allen's book walks you step-bystep through the practicalities of building your first bench, including measured drawings, extensive advice on using MDF and softwoods where appropriate and lots of information on fitting vices and other ancilliaries (such as dogs), and at £8.99 it's terrific value for money.

 

[woodbloke]

Also, and this is probably a very silly newbie question, but how do you stop the round dogs from dropping through the dog holes when inserted (with square ones I've seen people make use of a wood/metal spring to stop this)???

Jonny

Use on of these fitted half way down the wooden dog. A little tip I picked up at Pete Sefton's bash in July (and probably one of the best things I saw that day) - Rob

 

[Harbo]

I use used wine corks


Rod

 

[Paul Chapman]

I would go for round bench dogs. The best ones, in my experience, are those made by Veritas

http://www.brimarc.com/products/Veritas ... 788411.htm

They come in two lengths and are fitted with a spring to stop them falling out.

If you are using an MDF top, I would fit it to the legs with metal brackets.

I used sled-type feet just bolted through like this

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

I would go for round bench dogs. The best ones, in my experience, are those made by Veritas

http://www.brimarc.com/products/Veritas ... 788411.htm

They come in two lengths and are fitted with a spring to stop them falling out.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Those things are £25 a pair Paul :shock: :shock: apart from being made out of nasty hard brass which may ding your plane if it catches it :evil: If the OP made some out a length of suitably sized dowel or even a bit of broom handle, fitted with a ball catch, the cost then drops to around 50p each (or the price of the ball catch)..so what are you going to choose :-k ?
At Pete's bash, there were dozens of these things littered around on the training benches...at 50p each, you can afford to make as many as you like - Rob

 

[Jacob]

....
1. I've read up about the pros cons of round vs square and have opted to go for round as I think this will be simplest and easiest with my choice of work top.

Square better - round can leave more of an impression on the workpiece edge

Do I need to taper the round dog holes in the same way as I've read you need to do for square dog holes i.e. by approx. 2 degrees towards the end vice?

Not needed either way of you just have a tight fit. If they ever come loose you either make a new one (work of minutes) or tighten up one way or another

2. Also, and this is probably a very silly newbie question, but how do you stop the round dogs from dropping through the dog holes when inserted (with square ones I've seen people make use of a wood/metal spring to stop this)???

Tight fit is all you need, round or square.

...
4. Which would be better, sled feet or posts end grain on to the floor?..

posts etc are better- will stay in place more positively and one can be wedged if floor uneven.

 

[Paul Chapman]

..so what are you going to choose :-k ?

Well, I chose the Veritas ones, but each to their own........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

..so what are you going to choose :-k ?

Well, I chose the Veritas ones, but each to their own........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Make your own. Madness to buy a gadget for such a simple function. Buy some wood instead - get your priorities right!

 

[woodbloke]

..so what are you going to choose :-k ?

Well, I chose the Veritas ones, but each to their own........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Were I to use round dogs (which I don't) I'd go for the wooden ones...that would leave me a bit left over for a few more planes :mrgreen: :lol:

And I find myself agreeing with Jacob...again! - Rob, booking a visit to the doc's anytime soon

 

[Paul Chapman]

- get your priorities right!

There's nothing wrong with my priorities. I've used my Veritas dogs, and other clamping devices that they make, for numerous different types of clamping operations, other than as straight forward bench dogs. They have more than paid for themselves........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Harbo]

I make mine from 20mm dowelling - some with a chunk cut out to form a square surface.

Rod

 

[No skills]

Bits of broom handle with the first couple of inches turned down to fit the holes drilled in the bench? no need for catches?

(from a wood working vegetable with no workbench (yet)).

 

[barkwindjammer]

Got a router yet?

Home made bench stops/dogs

If you need some bench stops then a simple and effective method is to route short slots , use a 1/2" or 3/4" straight bit, they only need to be 2" long or there abouts, and 18mm deep or there abouts (not all the way through the bench top), the same shape as a festool domino would make, then make some 'domino stops' of various lengths (heights) out of something tough like beech, like a loose/slip tenon,,,,but without the glue,,,,obviously.
These can be made anywhere on your bench top, at any angle, simple and versatile.

mixed with a fine sprinkling of 'holdfast holes'- and incorporating RichardT's G'wan g'wan Holdfast™-cheap, and olde worlde to look at :wink:

 

[powertools]

+1 for the broom handles.
Never been able to get my head round why woodworkers would rather spend their money on expensive things they could make themselves with material from the scrap bin.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have both Veritas and shop made bench Dogs the Veritas are very good but a bit pricey and you would not want to hit them with your plane or saw.
This is how I and my students make them.
I make these from 19 mm (3/4” dowel); the dowel is cut to a length of 90 mm on the band saw in a cradle so they do not spin. On the same machine, with the fence set 13 mm from the blade and a depth stop set up at 17 mm cut into one end of each dowel. The depth stop is set up by clamping a piece of timber behind the blade

We need to drill and fix the spring loaded ball catch into the dog to give it a friction fit in the bench top. Set up the pillar drill with an 8 mm drill bit so that the flange on the ball catch will sit flush with the surface of the dowel. The fence needs to be set so that the drill bit is coming down central in the dowel. Use a ruler to place in the band saw kerf and lay it on a 13 mm block at the other end, this will keep the dowel level at 90 degrees to the drill.
Place an end stop against the fence so the Centre of the hole is 35 mm from the top of the dowel. Once all the first holes are drilled, change the bit over to a 5 mm bit so that the barrel on the catch fits tightly. Change the drilling depth to 16 mm and drill all the dowels again, making sure the hole is central to the previous one.

Now take your bench hook and your tenon saw and saw down to the band saw line giving the dog a flat cramping surface. Use your hammer and tap in the ball catch.
You are ready to use your bench dogs.

This was taken from my web site blog Cheers Peter

 

[condeesteso]

Might I mention please, and it isn't about dogs. Whatever you do, make the front frame (2 legs and lower stretcher) flush with front of top. As a bench is a work-holding device (a worktop too of course), setting legs back deletes it's ability to clamp larger pieces and assemblies easily, firmly and flat - for working edges. Best thing is forget any notion a bench is a table - there be dragons down that road. And make sure the lower stretcher is about 3" up so your toes can fit under - sounds odd but try working at a bench where the stretcher drops to the ground - can't get over the piece when planing for example.
If it needs an upper stretcher to support the top, make that either flush and not too deep say 3", or set it in about 4" so you can clamp to the top.
Dog holes: a few down the r/h leg are v good, to support a door say (other end in l/h vice... all assuming you are right handed, if not flip right and left).
Depending on bench length, a central 'leg' which needn't be structural is also useful, with a few dog-holes down it again (for shorter panels). ~That's a simple and effective version of the complex sliding 'deadman'.
Re dogs, I have used dowel, and have Veritas - not hit one with a plane ever yet, as they will always be set below the workpiece surface. BUT I think Axminster still do some good aluminium ones a lot cheaper.
And you have to post some pics - rule 7, clause 3

 

[No skills]

And make sure the lower stretcher is about 3" up so your toes can fit under - sounds odd but try working at a bench where the stretcher drops to the ground - can't get over the piece when planing for example.

Ahh, good point. Will try to remember that.

 

[stubtoe]

Have taken onboard all your comments and suggestions. Thanks.

Ill try and take pics of my bench build so you can all have a chuckle at my newbie mistakes!
:wink:

Jonny