Smoothing plane

[Zag73]

How do you propose the premium planes to measured, if you don't have two of meeting points at toe and heel?
Sounds costly to do it right, and it wouldn't favour any room for error either.

I'd sooner have a concave sole rather than a banana, as all that's required is merely a
lick of abrasive to make things quite the opposite.
Much less effort compared to a plane which will pivot about in the centre,
in which one needs to do spot working before the usual whole surface lick on the lap afterwards.

FYI, If the OP or anyone else are somehow swayed to try lapping a plane with adjustable mouth,
then just don't do it whatever you do,
lapping one of those is certainly another tier regarding precision flatness, should you wish to actually adjust the toe plate.

Tom

I should imagine it’s a satisfying experience to recondition an old plane. But I don’t think it’s as easy as people make out. For one , you’d need a perfectly flat surface to sand on. Otherwise what’s the point?! Too much is made of reconditioning planes. Add in your time , the cost of a new blade , potential for error and you might as well buy a decent new plane and crack on with doing what matters …. Woodworking. Just my penny’s worth

 

[Jacob]

I should imagine it’s a satisfying experience to recondition an old plane. But I don’t think it’s as easy as people make out. For one , you’d need a perfectly flat surface to sand on. Otherwise what’s the point?! Too much is made of reconditioning planes. Add in your time , the cost of a new blade , potential for error and you might as well buy a decent new plane and crack on with doing what matters …. Woodworking. Just my penny’s worth

So if your plane isn't working well you just buy a new one?

 

[Jameshow]

I should imagine it’s a satisfying experience to recondition an old plane. But I don’t think it’s as easy as people make out. For one , you’d need a perfectly flat surface to sand on. Otherwise what’s the point?! Too much is made of reconditioning planes. Add in your time , the cost of a new blade , potential for error and you might as well buy a decent new plane and crack on with doing what matters …. Woodworking. Just my penny’s worth

Why would an old plane need reconditioning?

Get a old Stanley or record sharpen the blade till it's pretty sharp and off you go...

Our 80 yo cabinet maker got all our men's shed planes sharp within a hour or two and keeps on top of them with 5mins each week

 

[Ttrees]

I should imagine it’s a satisfying experience to recondition an old plane. But I don’t think it’s as easy as people make out. For one , you’d need a perfectly flat surface to sand on. Otherwise what’s the point?! Too much is made of reconditioning planes. Add in your time , the cost of a new blade , potential for error and you might as well buy a decent new plane and crack on with doing what matters …. Woodworking. Just my penny’s worth

Aye, you can achieve this even with an out of whack plane, should you follow David Charlesworth's videos. (stopped shavings, and his definition of a straight edge)

You can pair timbers together and double an error, which one can go finer and finer
doubling it beyond vision, until it's within tolerance for a plate to sit on, should you not have a surface already.
Another method I find useful when checking a plate resting on something flat is
having two engineers squares, butting the blades back to back, and pushing them along the surface with good lighting behind, checking for light showing between.
(angle poise lamps, good value "Territal" ones in the Sweedish furniture store for a tenner)

Should you be observant, then the surface doesn't need be a Starret (R) granite plate
"Observant" as in using Charlesworth's lessons of hinging/pivoting the work
Same principals apply, and that will find an error regardless of the accuracy of the plate, if you move it about to check if the same thing is happening where you
might suspect the opposite, you know where you stand.

You could even use melamine, provided it's not damp and adequately supported.
Observation trumping any spec of any plate.
You need a surface to check with, along as what to use for lapping,
otherwise you would likely get into bother, should you follow many videos to a tee.
Keep checking, remember Charlesworth's tips and you will be thinking clearly.

You likely would get a tonne of mileage from your plane,
should you decide to ignore flattening.

Finally worth noting that anyone who's getting straight shavings from a Bailey plane.....
likely doesn't have some premium magic steel in the tool!
That says a lot about it really,
should you wish to seek out the evidence for yourself.

All the best
Tom

 

[Zag73]

So if your plane isn't working well you just buy a new one?

Using my noggin, I first ask the obvious…..am I doing something wrong?

 

[Jacob]

Why would an old plane need reconditioning?

It's an odd term anyway. "Reconditioning" is something you do on a regular basis to any/every tool i.e. sharpen, adjust, repair, etc

Get a old Stanley or record sharpen the blade till it's pretty sharp and off you go...

Quite often the case. First thing to do with a newly acquired old plane is to see if it works, and often they do, after a quick sharpen.
You sometimes get duds which were never set up and used in the first place but it doesn't take much to sort them out.

 

[Zag73]

All I asked was for views on the Veritas smoothers I should have stuck to Derek Cohen’s reviews. Objective!

 

[Zag73]

It's an odd term anyway. "Reconditioning" is something you do on a regular basis to any/every tool i.e. sharpen, adjust, repair, etc

Quite often the case. First thing to do with a newly acquired old plane is to see if it works, and often they do, after a quick sharpen.
You sometimes get duds which were never set up and used in the first place but it doesn't take much to sort them out.

What you describe is maintenance….

 

[Jacob]

Aye, you can achieve this even with an out of whack plane, should you follow David Charlesworth's videos. (stopped shavings, and his definition of a straight edge)

You can pair timbers together and double an error, which one can go finer and finer
doubling it beyond vision, until it's within tolerance for a plate to sit on, should you not have a surface already.
Another method I find useful when checking a plate resting on something flat is
having two engineers squares, butting the blades back to back, and pushing them along the surface with good lighting behind, checking for light showing between.

Sounds difficult! Much easier is to pass it over a bit of wet n dry as detailed above, and see if there are any high points.

.....

Finally worth noting that anyone who's getting straight shavings from a Bailey plane.....
likely doesn't have some premium magic steel in the tool!
That says a lot about it really,
should you wish to seek out the evidence for yourself.

All the best
Tom

Straight shavings? What for? Can't say I've ever had them as such. Am I missing something?

 

[Jacob]

What you describe is maintenance….

Right. In that case I never do "reconditioning". I know some people worry about the shade of blue paint etc and aim at as-new appearance. Seems a harmless hobby, but not for me!

 

[Zag73]

Right. In that case I never do "reconditioning". I know some people worry about the shade of blue paint etc and aim at as-new appearance. Seems a harmless hobby, but not for

Everyone has their preference. Mine is to buy new. Yours is clearly to buy an older tool. Each to their own

 

[D_W]

How do you propose the premium planes to measured, if you don't have two of meeting points at toe and heel?
Sounds costly to do it right, and it wouldn't favour any room for error either.

I'd sooner have a concave sole rather than a banana, as all that's required is merely a
lick of abrasive to make things quite the opposite.
Much less effort compared to a plane which will pivot about in the centre,
in which one needs to do spot working before the usual whole surface lick on the lap afterwards.

FYI, If the OP or anyone else are somehow swayed to try lapping a plane with adjustable mouth,
then just don't do it whatever you do,
lapping one of those is certainly another tier regarding precision flatness, should you wish to actually adjust the toe plate.

Tom

Someone with experience will figure out if a plane can't match plane a joint with normal planing. if it can, there's no problem.

Two things where flatness shows up on an already flat board or edge. Match planing/edge jointing, and smoothing a surface from end to end moving right to left or left to right. if The plane in question can't do both of those, then something is wrong.

As far as the last comment - I would definitely lap adjustable block plane mouths. If someone is a beginner and doesn't like a boutique plane for some reason, it's better to just sell it and try something else, which is what I did for my first errant LN. I just didn't feel like I had chance of improving it.

Getting further into detailed discussions, though, isn't going to help someone new, so It's kind of nice from the outset if it doesn't break the bank to have one premium plane that works just as it should. My first one did.

 

[D_W]

Just shy of £500 for a LN smoother. I don’t care how good they are, £500 is a rip off.

if that's the cost of something like a bronze 4, probably attempting to make a plane as good for the same cost that's attractive, and then providing customer support and paying employees is a good lesson.

I had a bronze 4 - it was a wonderful plane. Nobody on here could set a company up and make it any cheaper (I believe it was about $375 at the time, somewhere around 6 or 8 years ago).

What we are fortunate to have is a used market where something better can be found.

In terms of comparing a $375 Bronze 4 to a BUS which was maybe $225 or something at the time, which would I take? The bronze 4 easily. Easily. But it's ultimately not any better than a decent stanley 4, so that is what i have. A couple of them, but generally one that I use regularly. I would not have been able to make it work as well as it does when I was a beginner - not due to learning how much more needs to be done to it, but some about what's important (not doing things that aren't necessary) and to what standard.

it does seem to be the case that overseas distribution of LN planes comes with a much higher markup. I don't know why that is.

just checked the BUS, it's about $300 here with shipping and tax.

 

[D_W]

Lie Nielsen's iron #4 here is now $340. if I couldn't make a stanley work right, I would've started with LN 4. there are a couple of things to learn that make it better than the BUS, and if one doesn't want to learn them, then I think sticking to the BUS is OK. I think sticking to the BUS also means you'll stay at that level because it's not practical to do much with but very thin shavings. if you have reason to become more productive with smoothing and clean up, it's "tearout or hard to push" choices become obnoxious, along with the upright handle. The LN plane is just a much better design, but perhaps not for the first week that someone learns to use a plane.

And if you have a distributor marking it up to effectively $550, then that just sucks.

 

[Ttrees]

Sounds difficult! Much easier is to pass it over a bit of wet n dry as detailed above, and see if there are any high points.

Fair enough if you have say a planer bed, or other suitable surface.
Otherwise (on the cheap) one can use float glass,
(difficult to get thick sheets of any glass, so are bendy, even fridge shelves)
and flat timber, properly flat not pretending.
As one who's learning to use a plane, will ultimately be wanting for their work,full stop.

Straight shavings? What for? Can't say I've ever had them as such. Am I missing something?

It's a sign that you won't need to scrape or sand ever again.
No tight mouths, regular sharpening, traditional use, which you always highlight
because you wish for others to explain this rather than explain yourself...obviously.

 

[D_W]

Much easier, cheaper, quicker is to use thin paper backed wet n dry well wetted with white spirit - or water if your flat base is not rust prone.
It was designed for the job. Seems to have been forgotten.
You splash your fluid on a flat base - I use the bed of my planer, but there are many well known alternatives.
Drop on your sheet of wet n dry, splash more fluid over it and you are off.
Work your plane to and fro.
As it gets flattened down it sticks and stays in place very flat, which cloth backed won't do. Gluing it down is worse and ends up less than flat.
For longer plane use two pieces end to end. 80 grit will do - work the plane to and fro to keep the scratches in line. Use a straight scrap of wood as a guide and move it about to use the whole of the paper.
No need to move to finer grits - the "sharpness" disappears very quickly with use.
I know it's unfashionable but it works really well.
PS when finished you peel off you sheets of sand paper. When they are dry store them between boards so they stay flat and easier to re-use.
https://myhometools.co.uk/product/wet-and-dry-sandpaper-sand-paper-klingspor-poland-80-grit/PPS The first one or two passes will immediately show up high points and indicate how much you need to do. Most do far too much.

Humorous.

PSA roll on glass. Draw file between checking against the reference if the lapping is too vigorous. The file needs to be flexible enough to choose pressure between the edges without filing the sides off and turning the plane into a boat hull.

 

[Jacob]

Hi

I’m mulling the idea of getting a smoothing plane. I love the veritas planes and have narrowed down my choice to a veritas low angle smoother and a veritas bevel up smoother? Has anybody any experience of these two planes? Is one better than the other? I have a veritas Jack plane. Would a smoother do significantly more than the Jack? For context , I’m a hobbyist hybrid woodworker.

Thanks in advance.

To get back to the beginning - any plane can be a smoothing plane, it isn't a design of plane, except that a small footprint will do it better for obvious reasons - it will follow the profile of the surface better than a bigger one. Hence "coffin" shaped smoothers, and I suppose Derek's Veritas Custom #4 is along the same lines. Stanley/Record 4 seems popular as a smoother for the same reason - small, but not coffin shaped. Other than that a cambered blade is essential.

 

[D_W]

Where have you read that a coffin smoother has its shape to confirm to a less than flat surface?

 

[Zag73]

if that's the cost of something like a bronze 4, probably attempting to make a plane as good for the same cost that's attractive, and then providing customer support and paying employees is a good lesson.

I had a bronze 4 - it was a wonderful plane. Nobody on here could set a company up and make it any cheaper (I believe it was about $375 at the time, somewhere around 6 or 8 years ago).

What we are fortunate to have is a used market where something better can be found.

In terms of comparing a $375 Bronze 4 to a BUS which was maybe $225 or something at the time, which would I take? The bronze 4 easily. Easily. But it's ultimately not any better than a decent stanley 4, so that is what i have. A couple of them, but generally one that I use regularly. I would not have been able to make it work as well as it does when I was a beginner - not due to learning how much more needs to be done to it, but some about what's important (not doing things that aren't necessary) and to what standard.

it does seem to be the case that overseas distribution of LN planes comes with a much higher markup. I don't know why that is.

just checked the BUS, it's about $300 here with shipping and tax.

The BUS is a similar price here in the UK. I like the veritas planes due to feel in the hand and easy set up.

 

[Jacob]

Fair enough if you have say a planer bed, or other suitable surface.
Otherwise (on the cheap) one can use float glass,
(difficult to get thick sheets of any glass, so are bendy, even fridge shelves)
and flat timber, properly flat not pretending.
As one who's learning to use a plane, will ultimately be wanting for their work,full stop.

It's a sign that you won't need to scrape or sand ever again.
No tight mouths, regular sharpening, traditional use, which you always highlight
because you wish for others to explain this rather than explain yourself...obviously.

I've only ever noticed straight shavings as a feature of Japanese planing competition videos, and Cosman doing the same thing with some obviously very easy wood. Do other people do it? Do you do it?
I don't think I'll bother!