Small Chest on a Stand

[Calpol]

I have to agree about the marking lines on the carcass at least, not too fond of that Newt :?. Don't know about the drawers though, haven't seen or cut enough to be decided on that...

But a very slick wee 'smallchestonstand', like it a lot! One thing I probably would've done though is tapered the legs a bit, but that's probably just me

 

[OPJ]

I personally like to see the lines as it does show that the dovetails are indeed "hand cut". Well, perhaps not on a large carcase but, I think they have a place in more secluded areas - underneath the flap on a drop leaf table, for instance... :wink: Just don't cut them too deep!

Nice work, Pete. Where did you buy your oak from?

 

[Karl]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of piston fit drawers, Pete, I bet there are plenty on here who wish they could work to such tolerances and accuracy :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Which is why i'd leave the drawers alone.

Nice piece of crafstmanship there Pete.

Cheers

Karl

 

[xy mosian]

One thing that I am not quite sure about is that as you close one drawer another starts to open, this annoys SWIMBO.

Go for the quite life, keep SWIMBO happy, get rid of the piston fit.

xy

 

[xy mosian]

Sorry forgot the important bit

Nce Job!

xy

 

[newt]

Olly, interesting timbers. I have to assume it was bough wood under a lot of tension. Its a real bummer when you have to get rid of 60 %. It certainly was not moisture, it had been indoors in stick for over 6 months.

 

[Anonymous]

That's nice Pete, and small :shock:

 

[woodbloke]

Brad, I suspect there are some folk who enjoy a piston fit for drawers, particularly, as I have been told, that some top end cabinet makers have to plane the drawers when exhibiting in humid conditions.

My two euros worth as it's me what's coming under fire here :lol: :lol: I like drawers that fit like that and it seems to me to be a crime to spoil the effect by drilling a hole to let the air out
It's also well known that Edward Barnsley used to tour the country visiting clients who's drawers had stuck in humid weather...in his jacket pocket was a block plane used to take off shaving here or there to make them run smooth again. If you've got it (and made it) then flaunt it :wink: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

I like drawers that fit like that and it seems to me to be a crime to spoil the effect by drilling a hole to let the air out

I think it depends on the purpose of the piece. If it's an exhibition piece, then I think it's important to demonstrate that you have the level of craftsmanship to be able to produce piston fit drawers. However, if it's a piece that will be used every day, piston fit drawers could quickly become irritating.

I seem to remember reading an amusing piece in Alan Peters' book where he talks about making drawers. He mentions that his wife questioned why he spent so long making perfectly-fitting drawers when the ones in her kitchen cabinets, which had metal runners, worked better :shock: :shock: :lol:

It's still a very nice piece and I wish I could make drawers as well as Pete can :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[BradNaylor]

I've been mulling over the two issues raised in this thread - scribe lines on dovetails and 'piston fit' drawers - and made a realisation; my old woodwork teacher at school knew what he was talking about!

I was taught 30-odd years ago that when making traditional drawers the back piece should always be cut a millimetre or so short in its length, giving the whole drawer a very slight taper from front to back.

If the drawer front is cut ever so slightly too long, this enables you to plane the sides at the joints to get a perfect fit, simultaneously removing the scribe lines from the dovetails. It also means that that the drawer is very unlikey ever to bind, whatever the change in atmospheric conditions, as there is sufficient clearence along the length of the drawer with the 'perfect fit' only being at the very front where it is visible.

The other thing I was taught was to make the drawer back around 10mm lower than the drawer sides. I can't remember the explanation given for this but I now see that it eliminates completely the 'piston' problem. Air is able to escape into the drawer box and then out through the opening as the drawer is pushed in, a seal made only at the last moment.

I have been making drawers this way ever since. To be honest I just assumed that everyone else did too.

Evidently not!

:lol:

Cheers
Brad

 

[Boz62]

Thankyou Brad, another explanation from you that hits the mark . I have an old, ex-office, desk and it has the drawers exactly as you describe. Slightly tapered front to back, lower rear panel, snug fit at the front. Now I know why.

I like it here - I'm always learning new things 8)

Boz

 

[head clansman]

Hi brad

Nice explanation there couldnt have but it better , thats the right way of making drawers glade i'm not the only one who can make um right .hc

 

[Vinny]

Me too Boz - another thing to add to the list of things that thought i knew and didn't. You can learn so much on here. I'm confident that i could now build a shed with drawers in and a router table incorporated into the roof but I'd get rid of the scribe lines and make sure the door wasn't "piston fit" (now that i know what that is !) :wink:

Newt - nice work - one day I'd like to think that I'm approaching half that standard.

Keep it coming gents

Vinny

 

[woodbloke]

I was taught 30-odd years ago that when making traditional drawers the back piece should always be cut a millimetre or so short in its length, giving the whole drawer a very slight taper from front to back.

If the drawer front is cut ever so slightly too long, this enables you to plane the sides at the joints to get a perfect fit, simultaneously removing the scribe lines from the dovetails. It also means that that the drawer is very unlikey ever to bind, whatever the change in atmospheric conditions, as there is sufficient clearence along the length of the drawer with the 'perfect fit' only being at the very front where it is visible.

The other thing I was taught was to make the drawer back around 10mm lower than the drawer sides. I can't remember the explanation given for this but I now see that it eliminates completely the 'piston' problem. Air is able to escape into the drawer box and then out through the opening as the drawer is pushed in, a seal made only at the last moment.

I have been making drawers this way ever since. To be honest I just assumed that everyone else did too.

Evidently not!

:lol:

Cheers
Brad

The way I make them is for the drawer opening to be just a tad narrower (.5mm is enough) than the back of the cabinet. Shoot in the drawer front and the back to be tight fit (the front should only fit in half way all round when it's offered to the opening) The sides should be fractionally higher than the lapped d/t's when fitted and glued...this then means that the marking out lines are removed when the drawer is shot in. Making the whole drawer tapered is the way I used to teach it as well...but it's not the way I do it now :wink: I agree about the back...I also make mine about 6mm lower than the sides - Rob

 

[Doctor]

I've been mulling over the two issues raised in this thread - scribe lines on dovetails and 'piston fit' drawers - and made a realisation; my old woodwork teacher at school knew what he was talking about!

I was taught 30-odd years ago that when making traditional drawers the back piece should always be cut a millimetre or so short in its length, giving the whole drawer a very slight taper from front to back.

If the drawer front is cut ever so slightly too long, this enables you to plane the sides at the joints to get a perfect fit, simultaneously removing the scribe lines from the dovetails. It also means that that the drawer is very unlikey ever to bind, whatever the change in atmospheric conditions, as there is sufficient clearence along the length of the drawer with the 'perfect fit' only being at the very front where it is visible.

The other thing I was taught was to make the drawer back around 10mm lower than the drawer sides. I can't remember the explanation given for this but I now see that it eliminates completely the 'piston' problem. Air is able to escape into the drawer box and then out through the opening as the drawer is pushed in, a seal made only at the last moment.

I have been making drawers this way ever since. To be honest I just assumed that everyone else did too.

Evidently not!

:lol:

Cheers
Brad

I thought all yours were MDF, Pocket screwed on soft close runners or have I missed something? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[BradNaylor]

I thought all yours were MDF, Pocket screwed on soft close runners or have I missed something? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really Doc,

I didn't think that you had fallen for all that MDF & power tools rubbish I delight in spouting just to wind people up...

:wink:

I've used a lot more solid wood over the years than MDF, though admittedly a lot of it was pine. I only discovered soft close runners a couple of years ago - until then all my drawers were the traditional type with dovetails cut on a Leigh jig.

I now use Blum tandem runners because they are better. I make my drawer boxes from either solid wood or lipped MDF and join them with Dominos.

Pocket screws??? Pah!

:lol:

Cheers
Brad

 

[OPJ]

Olly, interesting timbers. I have to assume it was bough wood under a lot of tension. Its a real bummer when you have to get rid of 60 %. It certainly was not moisture, it had been indoors in stick for over 6 months.

Sounds very unfortunate, Pete. I've been using them for almost two-years and have not had this trouble with oak or any other hardwood (fingers crossed!).

You could be right about it being bough wood. If not, I guess the only other explanation is that the wider, longer boards had dried around the outside, perhaps leaving a higher content of moisture inside... As you cut in to the boards, this moisture was released in tension, which could explain the cupping and bowing problems you've had...

Then again, the moisture content would've had to have been quite high in the first place but, you also say it was kiln-dried... Perhaps too quickly? :-k

 

[woodbloke]

you also say it was kiln-dried... Perhaps too quickly? :-k

...I try and avoid kilned timber like the plague :evil: 'specially oak - Rob

 

[BradNaylor]

you also say it was kiln-dried... Perhaps too quickly? :-k

...I try and avoid kilned timber like the plague :evil: 'specially oak - Rob

I must be very lucky.

I uses a fair bit of AWO, as well as other hardwoods, and it is all kiln dried as far as I know. I never seem to have any problems of the kind described.

It might be something to do with this. My timber supplier stores all his stock in dry but unheated open sheds; it can be there for weeks if not months. In turn I store my timber in a dry but unheated storeroom. I bring it in to the workshop for perhaps a couple of days before use.

I have a suspicion that some people are keeping their timber in conditions that are too warm and dry, allowing tensions to build up which are released only when sawn.

Cheers
Brad

 

[newt]

Following on from previous comments and as this project is a bit experimental I have made a few changes. Lay out lines removed from the carcase, new stand with tapered legs and the rail on the stand reduced in depth by 5mm.

Chest in position