Sketchup vs Autocad

[spadge]

I want to plan a range of built in furniture and want to be able to look at it in 3D.

I have a copy of Autocad 2006 and can draw 2D stuff OK but find the conversion to 3D projection difficult because it is far from intuitive (at least I find it so!).

From the threads on this forum Sketchup seems to be the standard everyone uses. So my question is should I persevere with Autocad or will starting from scratch with Sketchup be the better option?

What do you guys think?

Cheers

Grahame

 

[Adam]

I used an older version of Autocad - and got pretty proficient with it for a while - but like you say, going 3D with it was not really intuitive. The proper "CAD" package which does seem intuitive for 3D is Solidworks - but I digress.

I've switched to Sketchup and haven't looked back. I wouldn't go back to Autocad now - its just not the right tool for me. Autocad is not "fast" enough at working in 3D form, and sketchup is so fast to learn.

Adam

 

[Anonymous]

Hi

First of all, Sketch up is not any kind of standard at all, it is simply an easy(ish) to use sketching program that has become popular recently.

Secondly, in the interests of being open, I am not a fan of SU - i am an engineer who has used CAD packages for 20+ years

CAD it is not.

If you are used to Autocad, then I think you'll find that SU is not very intuiitive and hard to use.
If you come from a background where you have not used CAD much, then SU is probably more easy to get to grips with than a true CAD package.

I have used many CAD packages over the years and find SU pretty horrible to use and am constantly frustrated that things I normally do in seconds in Solid Edge take ages in SU.
I did give up on it but have tried again recently only to be dissapointed once again. It appears to me that SU requires lots of 'work arounds' (see the tutorials on the forum) and plugins to get reasonable results of the type all CAD packages give as standard.

I too was doing 3D with autocad about 11 years ago and agree, it is not very intuitive - but then I don't find SU intuitive.

For info, for 3D work I use Strata Cx version 5.0 and Solid Edge

 

[Nick W]

Tony is absolutely right that SU is not CAD. Then again it doesn't claim to be.

Speaking as someone who used to write high end CAD software (15 yrs), and then worked as a user of such systems (7 yrs), I have found that for most of the stuff that I want to do as a woodworker, SU knocks spots off anything else on the market. The User Interface Paradigm (told you I used to be in the trade :wink: ) is quite different to that of any CAD package that I have come across which either makes it very easy to use for some, or a real PITA for others.

If your style involves lots of non-rectilinear, and/or curved work then SU will probably not be for you. Also if you want to use of line and text styles in your drawings SU will not be for you.

Also there are some real problems in the way that SU has been implemented internally. For instance there is no reason why rounding errors at the small scale should mess things up the way they do, but as Tony says there are workrounds - in this instance scaling things up when creating them, then scaling them back down again afterwards.

Personally I can't remember the last time I used anything other than SU - I love it (as if you can't tell that already ).

If you decide you want to use both SU and say AutoCAD, then you will need to buy the Pro version of SU so that you can move drawings between the tow systems, otherwise Google SU can be downloaded for free, so what have you got to loose in trying it? Do look at the various bits of training available both on the Google site, and here courtesy of the amazing Dave.

 

[Adam]

CAD it is not.

I'd disagree. I'd say Computer Aided Design it is. It might not be what people in top-end design use, but then maybe they need the thermal/stress calculations built in. Its using a computer to aid your design, and that it does by a better margin, than any package I know no matter how much more expensive. In the main, its due to it being so fast, and easy to try things out, and then knock them back and tweak it slightly. Exactly how it should be when you are trying things out before launching into cutting your wood with a blade! It depends on whether you are simply using a package as a draughting tool, or whether you are actually using it to tweak and improve your design. To me, thats whats the most useful, and thats what SU is good at.

In fact I've just finished designing my workshop in it, and I did it a lot faster than I would have done it in Autocad. I disagree on not finding it intuitive if you know Autocad. Having learnt all Autocads shortcuts and fastest methods....in fact I find I use SU like Autocad. The bit its clever at is working out where you need a solid surface. I first used Autocad 15 years ago, which was probably version 12 (1993?) in a CAD office, and several iterations since. For designing furniture I'd say Sketchup is perfect.

Adam

 

[Steve Maskery]

I too am a convert. I too have an older version of ACad on my PC and I can't remember the last time I fired it up either. I've probably forgotten how to use it, actually.

It's quite true that SU is a little, how shall we say, idiosyncratic, and no, it certainly isn't true CAD. But I can produce models in SU more quickly than in any other program I ever used, and, like Nick, I have been using CAD systems of one kind or another for over 20 years.

If you want an engineering drawing, stick to AutoCad. If you want to spend more time in the workshop and less on your computer, and if SU suits your style, I'll be surprised if you go back.

Cheers
Steve

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I think you need to choose the appropriate tool for the job. As was already said, if you need engineering drawings you probably don't want to use SU. Or at least you might start in SketchUp and export to a CAD file (with SU Pro) and finish up from there.

I find SketchUp to be perfectly suited for drawing furniture. Its easy to do quick, sketchy drawings to work out proportions and design characteristics and you can easily flesh out the drawing to include as much detail as you need. You can do as much dimensioning as you need to make drawings that could be used as plans in the shop.

SketchUp was intended as a competitor to AutoCAD or the other CAD applications out there but it is defintely powerful enough to do what any woodworker needs. As a matter of fact, I designed a small engine stand to support the Chevy Smallblock V-8 for a friend. I did it all in SketchUp, exported a DXF file which was sent to a machinist. He used that file straight as it came to run his CNC machine to machine the mounting plates and he was able to cut the stainless tube stock for the rest of it.

I'm sad that Tony doesn't find SU intuitive. I do find it to be so. I suppose different folks have different strengths. I also found flying an airplane intuitive but have friends who struggled with that.

I'd love to help Tony get to where he does find it intuitive.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to help Tony get to where he does find it intuitive.

You're on.
I have looked at SU again recently, but still find it unbelievably hard when compared to high end CAD. It just won't do what I want and seems to have very few tools to use

I think Steve was somewhere near the mark. I don't want a computer program to 'sketch' ideas that do not allow me to build furniture from them - I have many years of drawing and watecolour painting behind me, so prefer paper and pencil when sketching concepts or ideas (much faster and more satisfying thana computer)

What I do want is something to help me build furniture - Solid edge gives me dimensioned pieces as engineering drawings so that I can cut and shape the wood with confidence

 

[Nick W]

Tony,

Forgive me if this is a little too basic, but I wonder if you're finding it difficult becasue you are trying to produce drawings rather than a model.

In traditional engineering drawing, and to a great extent in programmes such as AutoCAD, what you do is draw plans, elevations, sections et al. In SU by contrast the main focus should be on the production of a 3-D model of the whole object/collection of objects. Once this has been done you can view the model from the various orthogonal directions, optionally add dimensions and other annotation and then print.

The new Layout application that comes with SU6 Pro (currently in beta), also enables you to produce assembly drawings containing several different views of one or more models, annotation etc., so you can produce printouts that look just like a trad. paper drawing would - though I have to say it has got a way to go yet before it does that in a truly useful manner - or maybe I've not yet clicked on how it (Layout) is supposed to be used.

Does this help, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Nick

Not really. I don't use Autocad, I use solid Edge.

In SE one works in 3D. There are 3 main program areas, the first is called part and one creates a 3d extrusion or revoled part etc. One can then 'nibble away' as in a wood working shop. For instance, i can draw a rectangle (2D) and extrude it into a plank of known length.
I can then select the cutout tool and draw a 2D profle of a mortice on it and extrude that down to a given depth (or through). This gives me a plank with a mortice.
I can draw another part with a tenon in exactly the same way

I can make all my parts, which are fully dimensioned and then move to the assembly section. one simply joins them togethsr as in woodworking. Select the faces that touch or are perpendicular or corners that mate etc.

There is also a Draft area where one imports the 3D image of a part and it automatically generates orthographic views (or whatever projection you choose)

I'll post some image from home when I get a chance

the thing is, I get a renedered 3D image and engineering drawings of every part - this is one of the main failings I see in SU, one is typically not actually producing drawings of finished parts from which one can maufacture them, just a 'sketch' of an overall shape

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Tony you can do the exact same thing in SketchUp as far as the joinery is concerned. In fact you can draw the pieces so they are in the proper orientation and then cut the joinery to match. If you don't believe, go back and look at the long tutorial I did constructing the armoire. Or here's a chair I did in the last few days. Every bit of the joinery is drawn.

Maybe there isn't automatic dimensioning of parts but they can be dimensioned. Maybe SketchUp dooesn't create mechanical drawings but then it was never meant to do that. Still, I can take the drawings I do in SU and go to the shop with ready to cut wood.

 

[Chris Knight]

For me the big difference is the great speed of SU for simple stuff and playing with designs, compared with say Solidworks that I have also used quite a bit. Solidworks, being fully parametric scores when changing dimensions of components and for the auto-generation of shop drawings. I would probably still use Solidworks for a piece of complicated furniture with many parts but I would do the initial design in SU.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I'm just curious about something. What is the price of Solidworks? What is the price of Solid Edge? I looked at both of their websites and couldn't find pricing.

 

[Chris Knight]

Dave,
They are in the class of "If you have to ask, you can't afford it". I think Solidworks is some $3000 - 5000/yr for a seat which is why I used someone else's!

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Dave,
They are in the class of "If you have to ask, you can't afford it". I think Solidworks is some $3000 - 5000/yr for a seat which is why I used someone else's!

Ah, thanks Chris. I suppose Solid Edge would be in the same ballpark and I found AutoCAD LT2007 for $820.

Now lets see what's out there to compete with SketchUp at the same price point.

It seems to me that comparing Solid Edge or AutoCAD or whatever to SketchUp is like comparing this:

to this:

They'll both get you to work and back.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave

I'll have a look at the armoire thread as the joinery you show in the chair is the level of detail I am looking for.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Tony, I really wish you and I could sit down together at a computer so I could show you in person how easy SketchUp is. Actually, I'd just like to be able to sit down in person with a bunch of you guys and talk about anything.

 

[Johnboy]

No one has mentioned Alibre Xpress. It is free and is a proper 3D solid modeling package. There are some limitations on number of parts in assemblies etc but these can be worked around. The fully functioning versions start at £795 here but a lot cheaper in the States. If you have used Solidworks/Catia/Ideas etc it is very similar. It comes with a set of tutorials to get you started.

No connections Etc.

John

 

[spadge]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I don't need an engineering drawing package, just something to turn idea's/sketches etc into a visual representation on paper so have just downloaded Sketchup.

Will let you know how I get on.

Cheers

Grahame

 

[Benchwayze]

Quote:
They'll both get you to work and back.

Absolutely Dave. I am laffin' like there ain't no smilie for.

Now, I need to make some perspective drawings of drawer construction for an Acrobat-File project I am involved in.

What's the best CAD solution to produce drawings like that?
or should I stay with hand drawing, as I used to do for bespoke furniture, to show a client.

I can scan in the drawings and use Photoshop to produce j pegs, that I can paste into 'Word' before I convert to PDF.

Cheers
John