Sharpening Stones need explaining!!

[albus16]

I suspect I am going to start a civil war here, but I am looking for some advice on sharpening stones.

As a (relative) newbie, I have realised the virtues of a sharp edge to my tools. However, I am not entirely certain on the differences/merits of different types of stone.

What are the basic differences between diamond, whet, and oilstones etc? And what impact do those differences have on the end result?

I'm currently doing all my chisels and plane blades with a King Homestone which is a waterstone use generally for kitchen knives etc. This is providing a nice bevel but is extremely labour intensive (perhaps a sign of the state the tools were in??). It's quite a fine stone which is perhaps why it is taking so long?

I'm using a honing guide currently to get the initial edge, but know that isn't a long-term thing to do so don't want an argument about that. I will be doing it by hand once I get used to the technique and honing angle etc.

So any advice on stones? or in fact, any advice on sharpening full stop please,

Thanks in advance,

Alex

 

[Benchwayze]

Alex,
Welcome to the Forum for a start.

If you you really do wish to sharpen your tools without a guide, then the best thing to do is get someone to show you how to do it, and set out as you mean to go on. If you choose the guide method, you probably won't go on to free-hand honing.

Have a look at YouTube, and I am sure you will find videos on there to teach you to sharpen either way.

If you can google for Frank Klausz's DVD on Hand Tools, you will learn a very good guide-free method from him.

I used to hone freehand, but for various reasons, I now find it difficult to keep a straight arm, and I am having to use a guide..

So nothing is really graven in stone. However, once you find the method that suits you, and providing it keeps your tools properly sharp, stick with it as long as you can.

Almost forgot. I found out a few years back that waterstones cut far better then oilstones. Others will tell you the best method is to use varying grades of wet 'n dry on plate glass... For me waterstones are the best.


Best of Luck
John

 

[LuptonM]

Can water stones really give a finer edge than 0.5 micron paper???????????

 

[Benchwayze]

I really couldn't say LM.

I can't visualise that miniscule amount, nor do I have the means of measuring it.

All I know is, even without a back bevel, (The ruler trick), my chisels and irons are sharp enough to shave with. More importantly, they are as sharp as they need to be to do their job, and I get them to this stage quicker on a waterstone than I did with oilstones.

HTH you
John

 

[Doug B]

Hi Alex,

I found this an interesting site :-

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html

Have a look round it, it explains many things including the make up of different stones.

I`ve recently gone back to my oil stones & hone with a cutting paste as Paul describes here :-

honing-lessons-from-westonbirt-t44167.html


Cheers.

 

[Ollie78]

Hi albus16

This is a subject with so many views and personal choices, I dont think there is any definative answers.
Some tools require different methods ie. you wouldn`t want to sharpen scrapers on a waterstone, but waterstones are perfect for japanese chisels.

If you want to know all about sharpening I recommend the book `Sharpening the complete guide` by Jim Kingshott. Its quite an old book but covers sharpening in great depth. I got a copy second hand for a few pounds.

Personally I have a waterstone set from Norton, but I still have my grandfathers India oil stone which must be 60 years old which I still use often.
I personally dont use guides, my thinking being that if I learn with a guide and then need to sharpen something without one my technique would be poor. So I decided to practice without a guide and now my technique is not too bad.

Good luck on your sharpening quest.
Ollie

 

[woodbloke]

As a (relative) newbie, I have realised the virtues of a sharp edge to my tools. However, I am not entirely certain on the differences/merits of different types of stone.

What are the basic differences between diamond, whet, and oilstones etc? And what impact do those differences have on the end result?

I'm using a honing guide currently to get the initial edge, but know that isn't a long-term thing to do so don't want an argument about that. I will be doing it by hand once I get used to the technique and honing angle etc.

So any advice on stones? or in fact, any advice on sharpening full stop please,

Thanks in advance,

Alex

If you've started to use a honing guide and are comfortable with it, then carry on (I use one, a Kell III) The sole object of any regime, no matter what you use, is to get that all important razor edge on your plane and chisel blades. In a nutshell, sharpening media fall into the following groups:

Waterstones - common varieties are generally soft and will dish very easily, so need to be levelled each time in use. Effective but messy. More exotic types (Shaptons) aren't so soft but are more expensive.

Oil stones - the old, traditional stones...cheap. They still dish, but can be flattened out...Jacob uses them. I don't

Scary Sharp - fixing a sharpening media to plate glass. Will stay flat, but can be expensive, depending on use...papers will over time wear out. If 3M films are used, there's a huge variety of grits from 100 to 36,000g :shock:

Diamond - diamond particles fixed to a flat steel substrate. Initially expensive, but will last a long time. The DMT stones are pretty good but the Extra, Extra Fine stone still isn't really fine enough. Flat.

Ceramic - expensive and stones may or may not be flat.

The above five mehods are generally used for the preparation of the honed bevel with the primary bevel usually being machine ground on a Tormek or similar. I've used all of them over the years and for me, Scary Sharp works best...but it may not for you :wink: - Rob

 

[LuptonM]

The downside of scary sharp is that the rougher grits wear out fast and the glass plate has to be cleaned very thoroughly as any debris will make the sandpaper non-flat and more prone to tearing.

 

[custard]

Hello Alex, Scary Sharp is a good starting point for three reasons, and no other honing system that I know of can tick all these three boxes,

1. The initial outlay is relatively low.

2. You're freed from the problems of flattening the stone.

3. You have a very wide range of grits at your disposal.

Is it perfect? Far from it, no honing method is. Personally I tried but abandoned Scary Sharpening because of paper tearing problems and the hassle of removing the worn/torn sheets and cleaning the glass plate, but I still think it represents the best overall honing solution for someone coming to general woodwork for the first time.

 

[woodbloke]

Hello Alex, Scary Sharp is a good starting point for three reasons, and no other honing system that I know of can tick all these three boxes,

1. The initial outlay is relatively low.

2. You're freed from the problems of flattening the stone.

3. You have a very wide range of grits at your disposal.

Is it perfect? Far from it, no honing method is. Personally I tried but abandoned Scary Sharpening because of paper tearing problems and the hassle of removing the worn/torn sheets and cleaning the glass plate, but I still think it represents the best overall honing solution for someone coming to general woodwork for the first time.

I agree that the film/paper tearing issue is a chore, but if you get into the 'mind set' that the stuff will tear and wear out, then it's livable with. What would be an even greater chore for me would be continually flattening waters stones and then clearing up the messy goo afterwards - Rob

 

[Jacob]

Hello Alex, Scary Sharp is a good starting point for three reasons, and no other honing system that I know of can tick all these three boxes,

1. The initial outlay is relatively low.

2. You're freed from the problems of flattening the stone.

3. You have a very wide range of grits at your disposal....

Oils stones?
Initial and lifetimes outlay is low - just one or two stones will last you for life.
no need to flatten,
wide range of grits.

NB you should never need to flatten anyway, if you spread the action evenly. These Jap chaps have got the hang of it - see how he use the whole surface:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znOICyk8 ... re=related

 

[Ateallthepies]

I tend to use either a low grit diamond stone or sandpaper on glass to make the primary bevel at 30 degrees on badly worn chisels and then move onto my 1000 or 2000 and then 6000 grit waterstones to make the micro bevel as small as possible using a Veritas guide.

Much as in the same was the wood whisperer does it... http://thewoodwhisperer.com/my-sharpening-system/