Sharpening Advice: Oil stones for a mirror finish?

[Simon Wells]

In my un-heated workshop I have been using Norton waterstones, 8 x 3 inch 220 & 1000 combination and 4000 & 8000 combination with a Norton Flattening plate. Then I strop on a homemade strop with T cut. This gives me a mirror finish and I have been very happy since I brought them in the summer.

Problem is the frost's, got sick of lugging them out of the house, forgetting to bring them back in so sprinting out at 3am to put them back in the house. Plus The Beloved does not like a large tupperware box with water and stones lurking in the house.

So, I brought my self a set of Norton Oil India stones, course, medium and fine. Even with a strop I never seem to get the mirror finish I did on the waterstones.

So do I:

Need to spend more time on the fine india oil stone?
Use a different strop compound?
Get a finer stone, ie hard arkansas?
Get a fine diamond?

I am tempted towards the hard arkansas as I used a vintage oil stone that is 8 x 2, very dark and gives my chisels a loverly finish and intermediate sharpening but is to small for 4, 5 & 7 plance blades.

Also looking to sell the Waterstones, still in thier plastic boxs , plus a 220 stone that is barely used. So thats a 220, 220 & 1000 combination, 4000 & 8000 combination, flattening plate. Only lightly used and still in their norton boxes, . All stones are 8 x 3, see here for full details: http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Norton_Waterstones.html


Would swop for a hard large arkansas or similar very fine stone.

Help or suggestions gratefully received.

Simon Wells

 

[bugbear]

I don't know of any oil stone sequence gradated and fine enough to give a mirror finish.

I do know that some natural waterstones (at extreme prices) also fail to give a mirror image, but give an exceptional edge.

A fine hard arkansas will certainly give an excellent edge for all woodworking purposes, except (possibly) finish planing where you go straight to oil or varnish.

You might want to check a recent thread where techniques to sharpen blades that are wider than your stones were mentioned. What were you planning to do for sharpening if you bought a drawknife ?!

BugBear

 

[Simon Wells]

Yes, I think the oil stone is a comprise, but in a frozen workshop.......

Shall look the other thread. Interestingly I am looking at getting a drawknife, but had not thought about how to sharpen it. Any good links or articles?

Still tempted by a hard arkansas, but shall see if I can get a decent finish on the vintage oil stones, they have been in The Beloveds family for at least 60 years!

From what you said does a lack or mirror finish not imply a lack of suitable edge? ie I am just looking for that as it is what I am used to, but it does not actualy affect performance?

A decent edge is important as it is a total hand tools only workshop.

 

[AndyT]

I normally use oilstones ending up with one which I think is a hard Arkansas and although it gives a perfectly good enough edge it doesn't give a mirror finish.

If you don't mind a very slow cutting action you can get surprisingly good results on Welsh slate which can be a lot cheaper.

If you want a polished edge you could either strop (see recent thread on stropping) or use some fine abrasive sheet stuck onto something smooth and flat. Both would be frost-proof.

 

[Jacob]

........................

I am tempted towards the hard arkansas as I used a vintage oil stone that is 8 x 2, very dark and gives my chisels a loverly finish and intermediate sharpening but is to small for 4, 5 & 7 plance blades. ....

Why too small? You just need to adjust your technique.

 

[Simon Wells]

Yes, I have no doubt adjusting my technique will solve the problem. Trouble is I have no technique. I am at the consciously incompetent stage of sharpening. Could you recommend any video's or clear idiot proof explanation for using a narrow stone for a wide plane blade?

I have searched the forum but struggled to understand the postings I have read on using a narrow stone for a wide edge. I suspect due to not having sufficient knowledge to correctly interpret the descriptions.

 

[Jacob]

You do it aslant the stone. Or to and fro but moving it across with each stroke. It's absolutely obvious really, but you have probably been persuaded that sharpening is difficult. It isn't. Any fool can do it.
It's about as difficult as sharpening a pencil and should take about as long.

 

[Simon Wells]

I feared as much, I use a mechanical pencil!

 

[RogerBoyle]

I feared as much, I use a mechanical pencil!

PMSL =D> =D> :mrgreen: :ho2

 

[Jacob]

I feared as much, I use a mechanical pencil!

Sharpening a pencil is a little bit of simple woodwork
If you can't do that then perhaps woodwork just isn't your thing. :roll:
Perhaps have a go though, at sharpening pencils; you don't want to give up too easily!

 

[Sawyer]

Ironically, sharpening a pencil is a good test for how sharp your chisel is. Dull chisels make a poor job of paring away that soft cedar wood!

 

[templecarpentry]

this is the only way to roll if you want real SHARP CHISELS.

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Sca ... ening.html

once you have flattened back your chisel and put a correct primary angle on the front, the secondary bevel is up to you really, but as far as sharpening goes, i swear by this method and would never change. All of my chisels are super sharp.

If you want to learn chisel sharpening techniques,

http://www.marcfish.co.uk/sharpening_courses.htm

he is a true artist and his attention to all of the tiny details makes his work flawless, trust me you would not be dissappointed. I spent a week working with marc and i was astonished by every aspect of his organisation. it may seeem expensive, but you will never have a dull edge again.

Hope this helps.

Phil

 

[Jacob]

:lol:
I wonder if anybody does a pencil sharpening course?

 

[marcros]

jacob, if i had drawn you in the secret santa draw, this would have been ideal

http://gothamist.com/2012/01/24/enough_ ... artisa.php

 

[Sawyer]

:lol:
I wonder if anybody does a pencil sharpening course?

That's level 2. First you have to pass the chisel course!

(but as we know, that's not overly difficult anyway). 8)

 

[Simon Wells]

Don't worry Jacob, I do use my chisels to sharpen my normal pencils, though I tend to use a cheap disposable knife for most marking out work and I even resharpen the blade on it.

It is always so hard to get the irony across in digital communication :wink:

Still tempted by a hard arkansas. Still I also want to get a draw knife and a vertias rounder tenon maker for a rustic gate project.......glazed look of tool lust comes across my face.

I guess I'll put the waterstones on the For Sale column after Christmas.

 

[Simon Wells]

I understand an oil stone will not give a mirror finish, never got one off the waterstones, but I did get one after stropping. But with the oil stones I don't get one EVEN after stropping. Hence the thought that it might be needing a finer stone betwen stropping and the fine oil stone?

I think, pencils aside, that is the heart of the issue.

 

[bugbear]

I understand an oil stone will not give a mirror finish, never got one off the waterstones, but I did get one after stropping. But with the oil stones I don't get one EVEN after stropping. Hence the thought that it might be needing a finer stone betwen stropping and the fine oil stone?

I think, pencils aside, that is the heart of the issue.

It depends on the coarseness (or fineness) or your strop dressing. These days, you can not only get super fine strop dressing (0.25 micron!!) but pretty darn coarse diamond stuff, which is coarser than some fine waterstones.

As you say, you're more looking for a "working sequence" of abrasiveness, but you can either make the stones meet the strop, or vice versa.

BugBear

 

[Simon Wells]

Thanks Bugbear for clarifying my ramblings.

So what going from a Finer norton oil stone should I:

1) Use a proper stropping compound? Currently using T cut
or

2) Use a finer abrasive after the fine oil stone, if so hard arkansas or very fine diamond?

I think Jacob would prefer my to use the ancesteral narrow oil stones

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[bugbear]

Thanks Bugbear for clarifying my ramblings.

So what going from a Finer norton oil stone should I:

1) Use a proper stropping compound? Currently using T cut
or

2) Use a finer abrasive after the fine oil stone, if so hard arkansas or very fine diamond?

I think Jacob would prefer my to use the ancesteral narrow oil stones

To inform your decision, here's a helpful grit chart.

http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

BugBear