Shaker Oval Boxes

[Saint Simon]

I'm having a go at making some shaker oval boxes. I've made all the necessary bending formers, bungs, templates etc but am having a problem with the actual bending. I haven't been able to source a longer enough metal box to try the hot water method and so have been trying to steam the strips. And I've only had a chance so far to try this with ordinary woodyard pine. I've picked out nice straight grained pieces and haven't had too much trouble planning the 2mm strips. But after an hour in the steamer the wood is still not happy to take on the necessary shape.
Any advice on wood for steaming, oval box technique or anything else relevant would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Simon

 

[blackrodd]

I've only done the usual chair hoops and suchlike, some time ago.
Here's a link for a Veritas booklet on techniques, times and timber thickness recomendations.
I see that air dried stock is best, Oak, ash and Douglas fir are all recommended for use in the steam box,--

http://www.leevalley.com/en/html/05F1501ie.pdf
Have a butchers and see how you get on.
Regards Rodders

 

[custard]

I'm surprised you're having a problem. I once made some furniture for a hotel and they asked me if I could also make thirty or forty Shaker boxes as bread bowls for the restaurant tables. I was a bit concerned as the only American Cherry I could find was kilned, but it worked easy as anything and I don't think I lost a single piece from splitting.

Apparently the way steaming works has very little to do with moisture, in order to make wood flexible the main thing that's required is heat, steaming and boiling are just convenient ways of heating the wood up to the correct temperature and keeping it there. Are you sure your steam box is well insulated so the wood is actually being thoroughly heated through rather than just sitting in a puddle of lukewarm condensed water?

 

[Kalimna]

Of the few oval boxes I have made (sides being either maple or yew), I used a bath filled with very hot tap water. The bending was slow, but fine. Maybe 2mm is a bit on the thick side?

Adam

 

[marcros]

an interesting project. I had not realised quite what they were until I did a bit of research after reading this thread.

Have you sourced the copper tacks?

 

[custard]

Have you sourced the copper tacks?

There's an old boy in the US who has one of the original tack making machines and he sells them in small (or large!) quantities. It's a dead easy project with all the components conveniently available, but everyone loves the results so no wonder it's become a mini industry in its own right!

 

[RogerP]

Marine chandlers sell them also Lee Valley actually advertise some for Shaker boxes.

 

[custard]

Marine chandlers sell them

The type you need for Shaker boxes are quite a bit smaller than the ones chandlers stock.

Here's the main source,

http://shakerovalbox.com

as far as I know everyone else who sells them just buys them from this guy.

 

[No skills]

Not sure I've got the right link, let's try..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--iPQIwSEJM

should be tips from a shipwright, excellent YouTube channel.

Ah it worked, he bends some fairly thick timber in plastic bags, shouldn't be too hard with thin shaker box stuff - I hope!

 

[Saint Simon]

Thanks everyone. Very helpful. You're making me think I'm not getting the wood hot enough. My steam box is quite big and gappy and maybe spreading the steam too far and letting it out out to easily.
The plastic bag technique looks interesting too. I haven't had a chance to source any cherry yet but will certainly try something other than the pine I've been experimenting with. I got my tacks from Lea Valley.
thanks
Simon

 

[RogerP]

I've used thick (1.5 mm) veneer heated in a domestic oven until almost too hot to hold then bent around a solid wood former. Works fine. I agree with Custard, wetting the wood is not really needed.

 

[AndyT]

Violin makers use a dry heater for bending the sides. It's an electrically heated lump of metal, cylindrical, about the size of a small jam jar. Not an easy item to find cheap but I wonder if you could improvise something similar? Maybe an old hot running bulb as used in slide projectors, covered by a tin can? Safely wired of course!

 

[marcros]

blowtorch and a piece of galvanised pipe?

 

[Kalimna]

Both blowtorch/pipe and hot bulbs are a standard way to improvise a device for bending instrument sides on. The pipe allows a good deal of fine-tuning, whereas the bulb array tends to be used in a former. Neither would be ideal for oval boxes, as the trick seems to be to wrap the side material around the former in one smooth movement. It would be quite tricky to heat the wood on a pipe this way in an even fashion.
A steam box/hot water tank gets around this by heating the whole piece of wood at the same time.

Adam

 

[Saint Simon]

Following people's advice I drastically reduced the volume of my steam box to concentrate the heat on the wood. Then a test on a similar 2mm thick strip of pine as I had failed with with the larger box. After 30 minutes steaming, failure again. So now some walnut of similar thickness and width. 30 minutes in the box and hey presto, without feeling particularly bendy, round the no3 box former it went without cracking or splitting. Success?
I think I was expecting steaming to have a more dramatic effect, turning the wood temporarily into easily deformed rubber rather than a still resistant but movable material. Anyway, some progress.
Thanks to all for their advice.
Simon