Scrub plane question

[speeder1987]

Hi guys

I am in the process of making my first hand plane ..... which is going to be a scrub plane.

I've bought the veritas scrub plane iron which I plan to use, this may be a stupid question but is it designed to be used bevel up or bevel down? The bed that the plane will be up against is at 45 degrees.

I reckon it should be bevel down but just wanted to check.

Also anyone got any experience sharpening one of these curved irons? Not really sure how to approach this

Thanks in advance

Cheers
John



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[Paul Chapman]

Bevel down.

Some tips here on honing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyE7-GBC ... plpp_video

I hone mine with the Veritas Mk11 guide and cambered roller.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Bevel down.
Grind and back-off the shape on a bench grinder Then hone freehand - no problem. Single bevel (or slightly convex). It's s very rough plane so the curve doesn't need to accurate.
Ideal scrub plane irons keep coming up on ebay - I think somebody has a big box of old stock. These are cheap.

 

[speeder1987]

OK thanks for the speedy responses guys

Cheers
John

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[bugbear]

Hi guys

I am in the process of making my first hand plane ..... which is going to be a scrub plane.

I've bought the veritas scrub plane iron which I plan to use, this may be a stupid question but is it designed to be used bevel up or bevel down? The bed that the plane will be up against is at 45 degrees.

I reckon it should be bevel down but just wanted to check.

Also anyone got any experience sharpening one of these curved irons? Not really sure how to approach this

Thanks in advance

Cheers
John

Sounds fun - scrub planes are a great DIY project, since the tolerances are wider than other plane styles. They're great fun to use too.

I didn't make a scrub - I converted a Jack plane to be scrub-ish.

But the blade's the same, so here's my web-page:

http://web.archive.org/web/200901141057 ... scrub.html

Or you could just buy one - but where's the fun in that!

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... at=1,41182
http://www.fine-tools.com/schrup.htm

I imagine you've found plenty of plane building resources already.

BugBear

 

[marcus]

If you use the sharpening method in the LN video where you put the blade in a vise and bring the stone to the blade, (which is a very good way) be careful as it's easy to cut yourself badly if you hold the stone with fingers in vicinity of the blade.

Writing with a plaster on my thumb from doing exactly this last week....

 

[MIGNAL]

A few years ago I bought one of those Herring blades (probably from the same seller) that Jacob links to. All I can say is that my example is an extremely good blade that is relatively easy to sharpen and keeps a very good edge.

 

[Jacob]

If you use the sharpening method in the LN video where you put the blade in a vise and bring the stone to the blade, (which is a very good way) be careful as it's easy to cut yourself badly if you hold the stone with fingers in vicinity of the blade.

Writing with a plaster on my thumb from doing exactly this last week....

Sounds like a very bad way to me!
It's really easy to sharpen a scrub plane freehand in the normal way. You just rock it sideways similarly to how you would a gouge; http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAn ... x?id=30227
Much the same as you woud do an ordinary lightly cambered blade but more so.

 

[marcus]

Well try it before dismissing it, it works and its much quicker and simpler — if you're not careless

 

[marcus]

BTW in the video he puts the plane iron vertically. For me it works better if you put it at an angle so that you hold the stone horizontally....

 

[Jacob]

Well try it before dismissing it, it works and its much quicker and simpler — if you're not careless

Tried it, dismissed it.
If it works for a scrub plane bade wouldn't it work just as well for any edge tool?

 

[marcus]

If it works for a scrub plane bade wouldn't it work just as well for any edge tool?

No. The point is that it is easier to round something with the guiding hand palm down and flat, so it would be inclined to round straight blades, but it makes rounding blades very easy and even. It's to do with the anatomy of the arm. Really this is very basic stuff.

 

[Jacob]

If it works for a scrub plane bade wouldn't it work just as well for any edge tool?

No. The point is that it is easier to round something with the guiding hand palm down and flat, so it would be inclined to round straight blades, but it makes rounding blades very easy and even. It's to do with the anatomy of the arm. Really this is very basic stuff.

Much easier to round a little light blade against a heavy stationary stone rather than the the other way round. Really this is very basic stuff. To do with anatomy of the brain probably.
NB No plasters on my thumb! :lol:
I've got the ECE scrub that LV are selling. Very good it is too but just for occasional use for cleaning up rough stuff such as old reclaimed timbers.
There's been a big effort to promote scrubbers ever since LN started making them but they were more or less unknown in Britain at least. I expect people just used rough old planes for some jobs, not realising that they had invented 'scrub' planes.

PS links to this LV video?

 

[marcus]

Whatever.

 

[speeder1987]

Sorry didn't mean to start an argument about sharpening .....

I normally use a honing guide for sharpening my tools ..... so a little nervous about doing it freehand.

I'll give it a go and see what happens!! Just got the plane finished ( though it still needs to be shaped) really happy with it, takes shavings which I was doubtful I would be able to achieve.

Bugbear thanks for the links .... made for some really interesting reading.

Thanks for all the advice everyone

John

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[marcus]

Sorry didn't mean to start an argument about sharpening .....

You didn't! Hope the plane turns out well...

 

[woodbrains]

If it works for a scrub plane bade wouldn't it work just as well for any edge tool?

No. The point is that it is easier to round something with the guiding hand palm down and flat, so it would be inclined to round straight blades, but it makes rounding blades very easy and even. It's to do with the anatomy of the arm. Really this is very basic stuff.

Much easier to round a little light blade against a heavy stationary stone rather than the the other way round. Really this is very basic stuff. To do with anatomy of the brain probably.
NB No plasters on my thumb! :lol:
I've got the ECE scrub that LV are selling. Very good it is too but just for occasional use for cleaning up rough stuff such as old reclaimed timbers.
There's been a big effort to promote scrubbers ever since LN started making them but they were more or less unknown in Britain at least. I expect people just used rough old planes for some jobs, not realising that they had invented 'scrub' planes.

PS links to this LV video?

Hello,

Afraid these planes have been known in Britain for centuries, where they have been variously known as scrub, bismarck and roughing planes. The first American settlers from Europe and Britain would have taken them across and continued the tradition there, so not an American invention. I still call them bismarck planes, since that is what I learned they were called as a kid, from an old woodworking book my granddad had, though I realise scrub is more common nowadays. Sharpening the irons by taking the stone to the blade is OK as sharpening these is akin to sharpening axes and adzes and the like. The plane is in effect an adze with a depth limiter. Of course sharpening like a reguler plane works too. They are extremely useful tools, if one wants to use hand tool methods, rather than surface planer/thicknesser, but do have there uses for difficult timbers, or widths too wide for these machines, when you wouldn't want to rip them narrower and lose figure,etc.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

....I still call them bismarck planes, since that is what I learned they were called as a kid, from an old woodworking book my granddad had,....

Exactly.
We know they were used but latterly they were not at all well known, until re-introduced by LN quite recently. "Bismarck' probably reflects that they were foreign. Record made one for the UK but it wasn't bought and is a rarity. But no doubt 'roughing' planes of various shapes and sizes have been in use from the beginning - downgraded knackered old planes I'd expect.
I wonder if they are/were better known in USA and N Europe because there is more of a back woods tradition in these places.
LV say The scrub plane is the tool of choice for major stock removal, the first step when flattening rough stock by hand. but this is a slight exaggeration IMHO as most modern sawn material is not too bad for a jack plane.
I bought one to see what all the fuss was about - and yes it is handy for very rough stuff e.g taking the wormy and nailey surface of old timber - it doesn't matter much if you hit a nail as you can carry on for some time, and anyway it's very easy to sharpen and set - as long as you apply the blade to the stone of course!

 

[Kalimna]

I have a LV scrub plane, and to sharpen I use a radiused piece of hardwood the same width as the blade sticky-taped some distance back from the blade edge and use it as a guide on the bar of my Jet waterstone Tormek-copy. Rocking the blade side to side on the hardwood 'jig' produces a nice edge of consistent angle (if you feel makes a difference).
I dont bother honing the edge as it is a roughing tool, and find it particularly useful when thicknessing by hand if I want 2-4mm removed.
It's quite satisfying seeing curly chunks of wood being released in the same manner as whispy shavings of a finely set finishing plane.

Adam

 

[Jelly]

According to the legendary Mr Underhill, scrub planes worked perpendicular to the grain are of the european woodworking tradition... Wheras fore planes worked diagonally are of the british tradition.

As timber merchants and importers have been part of the woodworking landscape in the uk for a lot longer than most places, it makes sense that the preparation of rough stock developed differently too...