Screws for the fence of my moving fillester

[Corneel]

The fillester I bought lately cam with one original and one not so original screw to attach the fence. The not so original one, a countersunk screw, doesn't work at all. It was even pretty hard to get it out of the plane. The original also a problem, a completely buggered screwdriver slot.

So, what to do? I am looking for some ideas. I could of course run some helicoils into the body and use M8 machine screws instead. Not really very original looking. I could fill the holes, redrill them and turn some nice looking screws on the lathe. But I am hopeless at turning screwthreads, so I would have to use a die. And the coarsest one I have is a UNC thread. Using a big woodscrew? I don't know if I can find them with such a large head.

Any more ideas?

 

[AndyT]

The only way I can think of is to buy another moving fillister plane which is in such poor condition as to be beyond rescue BUT with usable screws. Happy hunting!
(And curses on all those ebay sellers who only photograph the tops of their planes, not the soles or the ends!)

 

[Corneel]

That would be a fine solution, but one of the screwholes is now widened up and useless.

 

[Richard T]

The wooden moving fillister that I have (due for a new nicker) has two screws of different sizes - so either one or both are replacements. They are old type coach screws.

I'll post a picture if I can find my camera.

 

[Richard T]

They are just big, flat headed wood screws. No countersink.

So I should think that the closest things to start with would be coach screws. If you could turn (or file) the square heads round, reduce the thickness of the heads and cut a slot.

These screws of mine certainly need some attention - rusty and bumpy. Makes setting the fence where I want it impossible as turning them grinds against the brass slot and moves the fence...

 

[Corneel]

The top one in your picture looks just like mine. The original one. I wish I could walk into the hardware shop and buy a couple of these...

 

[Wiley Horne]

Here in the US, the screw you are looking for is called a 'flat fillister head, slotted', or in our vernacular, 'slotted cheese head' screw. The style is readily found in a machine screw, but is a specialty item in wood screws. The regular fillister head is domed, so one has to specify 'flat' fillister head. Perhaps you could figure out the equivalent terminology in the EU, and find it online.

Here is a thread from one of our forums discussing the problem:

http://www.sapfm.org/forum/index.php?topic=1781.0

Most of the leads are for US suppliers. However, a little more than halfway down the page, someone recommends Clerkenwell Screws in London, England as a likely source. Full contact information is given.

Locating threaded or helical inserts for vintage moving fillister screws may still be your best option.

Wiley

 

[Corneel]

Yes it looks like the helicoils is technically the best solution. I can make some screws that look like the original ones from the outside, but with M8 thread on the inside.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Corneel,

I suppose the answer to the screw problem depends on whether you want a working plane, or a historically accurate restoration of the original. In the latter case, the only answer is to make a new screw exactly as the old one. However, just to make a working plane, you have more freedom. Using a helicoil would be good if the existing thread will accept it, but if it won't, how about drilling and tapping a piece of 12mm round brass bar M8 in the lathe, drilling out the plane sole to accept it, and fixing it in with epoxy? Then an M8 cheese-head screw will have a secure hold.

 

[Corneel]

Well, I have been looking at the lathe in the workshop at work. It can make threads with a 2.8mm pitch. The screw I have here is 9tpi, which is very close to 2.8mm. So I think I have just found myself a nice little project. I just have to source some mild steel. i can only find stainless overhere.

It's been ages since I made threads on the lathe. I wonder if I can still pull it of.

 

[AndyT]

I think CC is right - for a working plane, a modern screw is the answer.
Back in this old thread I revealed a 1970s East German plane. It has a side depth stop and an underneath fence, which both use M6 threaded inserts and common screws as are sold for roofing sheets etc. It's a simple, practical answer, but not pretty.

This shot shows the fixings for the depth stop; the ones for the fence are the same:

But Corneel, your replica screw making idea sounds more fun!

 

[dickm]

Is it possible to buy an appropriate 5mm threaded version of the sort of barbed/threaded inserts that are used to hold bolts into kitchen unit carcases and similar? (there is probably a proper word for these!) They would grip even better than plain brass epoxied in?

 

[AndyT]

Is it possible to buy an appropriate 5mm threaded version of the sort of barbed/threaded inserts that are used to hold bolts into kitchen unit carcases and similar? (there is probably a proper word for these!) They would grip even better than plain brass epoxied in?

Yes, that's what in the plane in the picture in my last posting (ok they are 6mm not 5mm). 'Threaded inserts' or 'insert nuts' is the term you are looking for; they are available from the usual places - Screwfix, Toolstation, etc:

 

[Corneel]

Andy, I did the same with a very similar Dutch Nooitgedagt plane. These planes have been made for a long time in continental Europe. There must be thousands of these around. A typical carpenters plane, but very usefull, a lot better then the Stanley 78. Mine had a worn out sole, so I added a new sole. I could hide the inserts under the new sole. For the sides I just used normal woodscrews with a round head. Overall it doesn't look too bad. And like I said, it's a very usefull plane.

Today I have been practicing a bit with the screwproduction on the lathe. I use some brass now, because I have plentry and it turns easier. I'm making progress, but have a bin full of rejects allready.

 

[Corneel]

One screw finished. I hope. The threads are a bit thick. I don't know why, maybe because my lathe tool is too pointy? I grinded it freehand, so that would be a plausible explanation.

The shaft of this screw is thicker, because the hole is worn out from the not-original-countersunk screw. Tonight I'll try to fit it. Now I know how to cut threads again, I can make a new one anytime. It's a lot of work though on our old Myford.

 

[AndyT]

Result!

If the thread pitch is the same as the old one, the extra thickness might be just what is needed to grip in the old hole. Otherwise it might need a bit of sharpening and tapering, but I'm impressed by your dedication.

 

[Corneel]

Yes, I can always work it a bit with a sawfile. The nice thing about woodscrews, it doesn't need to be so ultra precise.

 

[Richard T]

Excellent =D>

I suppose a tool could be ground to cut a sharp, woody thread ... I see a (very) small business opportunity for you there.

 

[Corneel]

Sorry Richard, I'm not entering the tool business for wood threading tools. My turnings are way too rough to sell them.

But rough they may be, the screws do work! I made another one, because one old and one new screw looks a bit silly. I'll let time help to give them a bit of patina. Here they are in the plane. The fit is perfect, turning in and out smoothly.

And to prove the plane actually works with the new screws (and a sharpened blade).

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Splendid job! Far more elegant than using modern machine screws. It also proves that with a bit of persistence, old screws can be copied, and made to work well in old threaded holes.

Well done, sir!