Riving knife/Splitter

[DFC1047]

The knife fitted on my table saw is very difficult to set in the right place, and it appears that contrary to all the advice in this forum, it is in the wrong place anyway.......about 4 inches beyond the blade ( It is an old table saw, but cast iron and very strong )
Does anyone have any info on aftermarket fitting of a knife, the only thing I can find at the moment is Biesemeyer which seems to be only in USA.

 

[custard]

Sounds a daft question, but before assuming the problem's the riving knife, are you sure it's the right blade in the right position?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Details of the saw and pictures would be interesting, too...

 

[DFC1047]

It's just too big, cumbersome, and really gets in the way of cutting because its impossible to get in the right position. When you try and make a cut, the knife always blocks the piece.
Plus after reading on the forum, I made a zero clearance insert, which is visible in the pic, but if I modify that to include the knife, then the insert would be unstable as it would be split almost to the end.
The original insert is alloy and is split at the end.

 

[custard]

Bit of a mess isn't it. I wouldn't work on that in its present state.

Looks like it's attached somehow just behind the blade, with a secondary attachment point outside the machine's case. Why? Having two attachment points might explain why you can't get it lined up with the blade. Could a replacement be attached exclusively behind the blade and lose that outside attachment point?

Is it the correct thickness? It should be thicker than the saw plate but slightly less thick than the kerf.

It's making me queasy just looking at it!

 

[Eric The Viking]

Details of the saw and pictures would be interesting, too...

:-(

It looks like a 'younger' Wadkin, and I'm fairly certain riving knife issues on a similar model came up some years back.

But, as ever, specific information will avoid a lot of wasted time...

 

[memzey]

That's not a Wadkin fence or mitre gauge but I suppose those are changeable items. I'd have guessed Startrite or possibly Multico. The twin splitter attachment is most common on US saws though so perhaps it's an old delta or powermatic?

 

[DFC1047]

My "workshop" space is very limited and so in fact the saw is mounted on castors and wheeled into my car port when in use.
The knife is attached in 2 places as you say.
Details of the saw : as in the photo I'm afraid, on the "instructoion" booklet, it just says 110L Tilting Arbor saw . I've made enquiries on this forum some time ago about spare parts, and I found out the manufacturer had gone out of business.
During research over the last hour I have come up with Microjig.com pic attached.

 

[custard]

I've just re-read your other post. Teaching yourself from scratch to operate an old saw that's seriously deficient in essential safety devices using You Tube videos.

Seriously dude, you're an accident waiting to happen. You've already had one minor mishap, the next one will likely be a lot more serious. Your wife won't be ticking you off, she'll be scrabbling around in the sawdust looking for the severed fingers.

 

[DFC1047]

I agree the saw is old, looks like 1992, but it is in good condition, the lighting on the pic, and the location does not do it justice really. It was in regular use by a good woodworker until I inherited it after he return to UK. I'm a "good learner", that's why I ask the questions, and I do take notice of what is said .

 

[beech1948]

Well Poolewood still exist and should be able to give some basic info. Woodwise was one of their brand names I think..could be wrong there.

A single point attachment of a riving knife should be possible given the slot in the front of the existing RK. To make it a firm connection you would really need 2 bolts in that slot with some larger washers used.

Can you make one yourself is possibly the question...depends on tools available and your skills. If you look at other saws you will see the designs usually have a curved RK upto the top of the saw fitted closely to the saw blade curvature. By closely I mean maybe 3-4mm from the blade. Height should be the same or a few mm below the blade. Thickness of metal should be the same as the saw blade kerf + a few thou. RK should be attached such that it rises and falls with the saw blade.

Sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs.

Safety is always an issue. When I was trained ( 46yrs ago) I was given a mornings training on adjusting the various things on a table saw that mattered....it was on a Wadkin PK with some massive extension tables. I did some work on the saw under supervision that pm with frequent discussion of safety issues and approaches. Day 2 started with constructing safety fences clamped to the saw table and positioning and so it went on all week. At the end of the week my supervisor stepped back but we talked every 1 or 2 hours about what I was doing and why.....with a few teenage idiocies highlighted and corrected.

You probably don't have time or resources to do all of that BUT finding a helpful mentor for say 6 months could be a good way to go. Youtube is OK in its way but there is such a lot of extra info you will get from a mentor that it would be far better than Youtube.

Good luck

Al

 

[blackrodd]

That seems to be the same 10" woodwise sawbench as a member bought some time ago, but is no longer active,
Have a butchers below, and pic.
10-table-saw-woodwise-help-t52467.html

He was happy with his 3 phase version as you can see, so it would seem to be worth attempting some fettling
to it's former glory, as it looks to be a reasonable machine.
Are there no pics in the user book you have to show the riving knife in position?
Un plug or isolate the electrics, take out the 10"(?) saw blade and look at the washers and try and decide if some are not part of the original set in lining up the saw, or are in the wrong order, failing that
You will have to decide if the riving knife is damaged, or bent, using a good straight edge, off the saw blade.
The teeth may foul a straight line off the saw blade, make sure the gap is parallel
For the wooden mouth piece, Put the saw kerf in from the fence and then measure and round off the ends to fit.
See how you get on,
Regards Rodders

 

[Eric The Viking]

That seems to be the same 10" woodwise sawbench as a member bought some time ago...

Good catch, Rodders!

Looking at the picture of the removed riving knife, it seems to be proper equipment for the saw. If home made, you probably wouldn't trouble to make the shape and bends that complex. The one Rodders mentions in the earlier thread seems to have a fairly complex guard, which might explain the size and shape of the knife on yours (i.e. a guard is meant to mount on it).

If you want something that rises and falls with the blade, and stays close to it, you're probably looking at making a much more complex arrangement, unless the saw was intended to have something of that sort fitted. On the two saws I have, admittedly very similar in design to each other and different to yours, the riving knife mounting pivots about the axis of the saw blade. There's a strap that goes to a non-height-changing part of the blade mounting (trunnion system), so that, as you raise or lower the blade, the knife goes with it, but rotates around the blade, so it's higher when it needs to be (you still need a fixing point for the guard above the table when the blade is low, so the knife can't move with the blade exactly).

Can you get a picture with the blade removed, looking down into the slot at an angle, from the right side of the saw? The idea is to show what's in the slot behind where the blade would be... it's possible there are alternative mountings, as that knife is really a static and poorly-fitting splitter (generally deprecated on safety grounds).

E.

PS: I am NOT a safety expert, merely a curious bystander in this context. It's up to you as the owner and user to satisfy yourself you are using the thing safely. Safety is relative, not absolute, and at the end of the day, in a home workshop, it's a judgement call as to whether anything is 'safe enough' to use for any particular task. There seems to be a consensus developing that this one's not 'safe enough', by modern standards, so it's well worth looking at what can be done.

Personally I wouldn't give that green plastic thing room in the waste bin, let alone buy it. Search for "table saw kickback" on YouTube to see why. There's a load of rubbish out there, and obviously people have no idea how or why kickback happens (e.g. "This table saw has never before had a kickback..." As if it's the saw causing it - D'oh!), but here's a sensible one to get you started where the presenter (who you might recognise) isn't trying to sell some add on must-have fitting or push stick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QXIN2X8-w

 

[custard]

I agree the saw is old, looks like 1992, but it is in good condition, the lighting on the pic, and the location does not do it justice really. It was in regular use by a good woodworker until I inherited it after he return to UK. I'm a "good learner", that's why I ask the questions, and I do take notice of what is said .

I'm really not trying to be offensive or derogatory, and believe me when I say I mean this with the greatest of respect, but the truth is you don't know enough to know all the things that you don't know!

As well as yourself there's also likely plenty of guys reading this who are thinking, "hey, he did it which means I can go and buy an old saw and teach myself". The problem is all that's influenced by "survivor bias", we only ever hear from the ones that get away with it. The ones that end up in A&E and never return to woodworking don't feature in the blogs or the forums so we get a distorted view of the risks.

I've been around woodworking machinery for many, many years. And I've seen the stomach turning mess that accidents produce. Your saw could be made useable, but right now it's not. It absolutely needs a riving knife and a guard, and until it's got those things you should remove the plug. So someone else used the saw in it's current condition, so what, maybe they were lucky, or stupid, or only used it once a month, or just cut sheet goods on it. The photographs tell me all I need to know, that saw isn't safe until you get the safety equipment sorted. But even when you've done those items, do you have the knowledge to evaluate if they're correct for that machine and have been properly installed? Are you able to tell if the blade's sharp, if it's the correct type for the job, and if it's been safely fitted? Do you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, if the fence is correctly set up for the job in hand?

There are so many ways that woodworking machinery can hurt you, ways that you haven't a clue about. Just recently Peter Sefton, a really knowledgeable and experienced instructor, told of an incident where an experienced operator was cross cutting on a table saw and allowed the off-cuts to gather on the table. One of those off-cuts brushed against the blade, was picked up and thrown over the top of the blade, and amputated his finger. And this was a guy who was a professional wood machinist in a professional workshop with the correct safety devices. I read that with horror, as frankly it wasn't so different from my own working practises.

 

[custard]

here's a sensible one to get you started where the presenter (who you might recognise) isn't trying to sell some add on must-have fitting or push stick:

Doesn't that contravene copyright?

 

[Eric The Viking]

here's a sensible one to get you started where the presenter (who you might recognise) isn't trying to sell some add on must-have fitting or push stick:

Doesn't that contravene copyright?

Almost certainly. Almost everything on YouTube is advertising something, even if it's only the twerp making the video. Mr. Maskery being the exception, naturellment (it says 'ere).

I was actually looking for the video where Steve demonstrates kickback really well with a sheet of polystyrene. I think it's on Vimeo though, and he's away presently so I can't ask him directly.

He'll probably spot this thread sometime soon and put me out of my misery...

E.

 

[custard]

here's a sensible one to get you started where the presenter (who you might recognise) isn't trying to sell some add on must-have fitting or push stick:

Doesn't that contravene copyright?

Almost certainly. Almost everything on YouTube is advertising something, even if it's only the twerp making the video. Mr. Maskery being the exception, naturellment (it says 'ere).

I was actually looking for the video where Steve demonstrates kickback really well with a sheet of polystyrene. I think it's on Vimeo though, and he's away presently so I can't ask him directly.

He'll probably spot this thread sometime soon and put me out of my misery...

E.

Maybe it is just a trailer for his videos, but 9 minutes looked a bit long which made me wonder if it was pirated.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I think it's a genuine freebie.

 

[DFC1047]

Wow.........lots to answer from the above posts, and a couple or more photos to take so I'll do that tomorrow.
What I can say is that the photo shown in Blackrod's post above, looks exactly like my saw, and yes, the kife fitted did have a sort of guard with serrated edge on.
Custard : I'm trying really hard to get things right

 

[JakeS]

I think it's a genuine freebie.

It definitely is; it's embedded in the 'Previews' section of his website:

http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ ... ation_id=7