Repairing leaking ballcock - advice please.

[Stan]

I have been asked to look at a leaking ballcock valve in a toilet in a community building. The cost of calling in a plumber is prohibitive for the charity involved, but the cost of messing it up and then calling a plumber is punitive! So I am asking for specific advice from forum members on the following points.

Photo of valve:

The building is around 60 years old, and most likely this ballcock has not been touched since new. The cistern is bakelite, or something very similar. Amazingly ( and fortunately ), the stopcock for the cistern works fine, so the ballcock valve can be removed for repairs.

The float arm moves up and down quite freely. I suspect either the jet inside the valve has become gunked up, or the small washer on the end of the sliding piston has perished, or both.

Firstly, will spares still be available? If so, will they need to be imperial? If not, can modern metric parts be cut down?

I propose to leave the feed pipe in place on the cistern and to remove the ballcock by loosening the nut indicated by the red bar in the picture. This is to minimise risk of damage to the cistern. If this is not a good idea, why not? Suggested alternative? I need to avoid torque on the entry pipe on the right of the photo.

Any tips for loosening old brass joints like this? I have all the necessary tools, along with fancy WD40 etc. I am not a trained plumber but a reasonably competent household DIY guy. I have replaced pipes, copper hot water tank heaters and such like in the past.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

 

[Stan]

A second thought:

Is it possible to get a small converter pipe to attach to the old imperial inlet pipe? If so, I could bin the old ballcock valve and fit a modern metric one.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

15mm and 1/2" are pretty much interchangeable, one is an external measurement, the other internal. You can get a 22mm to 3/4" straight coupling if the supply is off a tank. Replace the lot.

 

[Spectric]

Firstly, will spares still be available? If so, will they need to be imperial?

Plumbing is one of those areas where there is a good deal of mix and match with fittings, it has not been fully metricated if there is such a word. Common threads are still 1/2 and 3/4 BSP and then some are a metric thread but these valves are really simple. Just turn off the water and remove the whole assembly and replace or you could remove the knurled nut on the far left and the split pin to remove the float arm and replace the rubber washer with parts from your local plumbers merchant, not a shed like B&Q or such.

 

[Spectric]

If you need to go right back to the pipework then you will need a plumber unless you can do copper pipe,

It could well be 1/2 and you might need an adapter like this

https://www.bes.co.uk/copper-metric-to-imperial-adaptor-15mm-x-1-2-copper-9165/
I would use endfeed because in this job you can use leaded solder which is easier rather than solder ring like these that use lead free.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta...VS-3tCh1mNQE1EAQYBCABEgLjlPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Lons]

The nut should come off ok though it will be tight and the sealing washer will ne knackered however what usually happens is that the nylon valve part gets rough and sometimes spilt. They can be renewed if in that state but you might need to take the parts to a merchant to match up. In this case I would just replace the whole fitting as you should have no problem coupling up the supply pipe and they're cheap enough. I have 3 tanks in the loft and keep a spare fitting just in case. I'd be very surprised if the parts in that are original as they don't last as long as that normally. BTW there are different types of washer, the simplest, probably yours is just a flat disk of rubber that pushes into a recess in the brass piston, I've cut my own and even turned them around in the past.

EDIT Made4Trade Float Valve Part 1 1/2" High Pressure | Toolstation

 

[Old.bodger]

Hi Stan
Firstly a couple of ‘be careful ‘ items!
The cistern material may well contain asbestos…..no real issue just don’t cut / sand etc….no reason why you would!
the other thing is the big rust stain in the background of the picture. It is all that is left of the original fixing screws. Don’t get heavy handed or your cistern may become ‘unsupported’.

As to the job you are trying to do. Remove the entire ball valve by turning off the water and undoing the joint outside of the cistern. New item is not expensive. Flomasta Brass Part 1 Float Valve 1/2" - Screwfix

My reasoning……after all this time much of the valve will be worn / corroded it is not unusual to find that the brass mechanism has worn to a point that it tends to ‘stick’ open or closed.

In truth changing the unit is going to be quicker.

 

[Old.bodger]

Threads should all be the same. There have been no changes over the years,

 

[Bingy man]

I have been asked to look at a leaking ballcock valve in a toilet in a community building. The cost of calling in a plumber is prohibitive for the charity involved, but the cost of messing it up and then calling a plumber is punitive! So I am asking for specific advice from forum members on the following points.

Photo of valve:

View attachment 157158


The building is around 60 years old, and most likely this ballcock has not been touched since new. The cistern is bakelite, or something very similar. Amazingly ( and fortunately ), the stopcock for the cistern works fine, so the ballcock valve can be removed for repairs.

The float arm moves up and down quite freely. I suspect either the jet inside the valve has become gunked up, or the small washer on the end of the sliding piston has perished, or both.

Firstly, will spares still be available? If so, will they need to be imperial? If not, can modern metric parts be cut down?

I propose to leave the feed pipe in place on the cistern and to remove the ballcock by loosening the nut indicated by the red bar in the picture. This is to minimise risk of damage to the cistern. If this is not a good idea, why not? Suggested alternative? I need to avoid torque on the entry pipe on the right of the photo.

Any tips for loosening old brass joints like this? I have all the necessary tools, along with fancy WD40 etc. I am not a trained plumber but a reasonably competent household DIY guy. I have replaced pipes, copper hot water tank heaters and such like in the past.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration.

Buy a 1/2 “ brass ball valve - With a pair of grips on the body and a suitable adjustable spanner on the nut you have marked in red undo that union ( a little penetrating release oil will help ) . Do the same on the new ball valve and just change out the back arm and body . You may have to clean off the old fibre washer that is in between that union but there will be a new one when you split the new valve ..it saves you messing with the mains connection especially if its lead ..apologies if this has already been suggested ( I’ve just woke up due to toothache)

 

[Richard_C]

Yes, should be a straight swap. On the plus side, it looks to be accessible, on roof tanks you often end up perched on one leg leaning over an invisible void. Plus it is side entry, some are bottom entry and you have to worry about water coming out of the cistern when you remove it. So what you have shoudl be low risk easy.

The best solution is a new valve assembly, particularly as that one seems to be pretty scaly with hard water deposits. If you are slightly nervous about it you could try a quick fix first, for the sake of a few pence and 20 minutes, if it doesn't work then go get a new one.

4 quick fix things - "3 bodges and a small repair"

• Grab the ball valve arm and push it down and up, is it moving reasonably smoothly? Sometimes hard water deposits around the split pin stop it coming up properly, just scrape any limescale off.
• Look at the ball - is it half full of water? I have had an old one that split and leaked so didn't bob up energetically. New ball, just spins off the end.
• Bend the ball arm down a bit, it closes the valve sooner so it takes longer for any drips to fill the tank to overflow level and might just give enough upward pressure to stop the leak for a few months - but don't overdo it or it wont be deep enough for the flush to work.
• Replace the washer. Take the knurled nut off the end, all it does is make the fill water run down instead of across the tank with noise and splashes-out. Turn off water, take out the split pin, the arm drops down. You might need a slim screwdriver prodded up the slot to get the 'shuttle' out (if you are brave turn the water back on momentarily and it shoots out). Examine, replace or if no spare reverse the rubber washer, reassemble. The biggest challenge is not dropping the split pin - wet arm and much cursing while you fish.

If that doesn't work then a new one will save loads of messing about, as above I don't recall ever having one that didn't fit as a straight replacement. They are either just like what you have or very different like 22mm or slimline cistern ones. I'm not a plumber, just old and have done loads over the years.

I bet there are squintillions of good videos on you tube.

 

[Lons]

Further to my earlier post this might help

 

[HappyHacker]

I tried to buy a ballcock online from one of the sheds (SF and TS) on a Saturday afternoon, when the local plumbers merchants were shut, neither had one. Apparently I should have been searching for a "part 1 float valve"!

Good advice given above, it is not difficult but you need to be careful with old stuff.

 

[Bingy man]

Part 1 is the original type that the op has in his cistern . It will be compatible with a new pt.1 ball valve. As long as it’s fed by mains pressure and not a gravity system . the hardest part is splitting the union .

 

[Limey Lurker]

I've never taken off the whole valve to only replace the washer. Just take out the split pin, and remove the lever arm. Unscrew the cap on the end of the valve. From underneath the valve, use a nail or small screwdriver to push the piston out. If the piston is brass, the end will screw off so that a new washer can be fitted. If the valve seat needs changing, only then is it necessary to remove the valve body, at which point the decision whether or not to renew the entire fitting can be made. HTH!

 

[aet1]

Buy a 1/2 “ brass ball valve - With a pair of grips on the body and a suitable adjustable spanner on the nut you have marked in red undo that union ( a little penetrating release oil will help ) . Do the same on the new ball valve and just change out the back arm and body . You may have to clean off the old fibre washer that is in between that union but there will be a new one when you split the new valve ..it saves you messing with the mains connection especially if its lead ..apologies if this has already been suggested ( I’ve just woke up due to toothache)

Best of luck finding a dentist

 

[Bingy man]

Best of luck finding a dentist

Got a dentist but have to wait 4 weeks for appointment

 

[Wildman]

before you go over the top turn the water off, unscrew the nut on lefthand side. remove the pin and athe ball valve arm. The actual valve will then slide out from inside. on the end of is is a tiny rubber disc. Carefully remove it and turn it upside down so the un damaged side is showing, keep your fingers crossed and re assemble should be fine, cost zero.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Got a dentist but have to wait 4 weeks for appointment

We've just been notified ours are no longer doing checkups only emergencies.

 

[Bingy man]

We've just been notified ours are no longer doing checkups only emergencies.

I think this country is getting worse with every passing year, for 4 years I’ve been complaining about the rats in the communal gardens to be told unless they get into your flat we can’t help, now they have got into the empty flat and set up home we suddenly have multiple bait boxes and regular visits from a pest control company but they could of done this years ago and it would not of got this bad . What ever happened to prevention is better than the cure ..

 

[Bingy man]

before you go over the top turn the water off, unscrew the nut on lefthand side. remove the pin and athe ball valve arm. The actual valve will then slide out from inside. on the end of is is a tiny rubber disc. Carefully remove it and turn it upside down so the un damaged side is showing, keep your fingers crossed and re assemble should be fine, cost zero.

This is ok for a temporary fix but it won’t last , as the other side of the washer wears it will breakdown completely as the rubber perishes. No disrespect but Op does not have much in the way of plumbing knowledge or he wouldn’t have made the post to begin with. He won’t know if it’s the washer or the orifice or both that’s at fault- hence the advice to change the majority valve - there is less chance of him making a mistake imo.