REJECTION OF VEHICLE INSURANCE CLAIMS.

[Yorkieguy]

From the Press:

REJECTION OF INSURANCE CLAIMS:

New research by Forbes Advisor revealed that undeclared car modifications are the primary cause of disallowed car insurance claims in the UK.

The price comparison and financial guidance website found that a sixth of drivers who have made a claim (16%) have been partially or fully declined for failing to declare modifications on their vehicle, such as window tints or rear spoilers.

The study analysed the number of rejected car insurance claims in the UK, including the leading causes for claim dismissal.

The second-most common reason for a rejected claim was parking in a location at a certain time (15%), such as a driveway overnight, after specifying the car would be in a garage.

Rounding out the top three reasons are 'fronting' – when a more experienced driver lies about being the main driver on a policy (Parent insures a car as being the main driver, when in reality, their son/daughter is the main driver. Easily discovered. EG: Parent lives in London, son/daughter has an accident in Newcastle when at University. Also, using a car for business purposes on a social/domestic-only policy (14% each).

Top Five Causes Of Car Insurance Claims Rejections In Britain:

⦁ Failing to update an insurer on car modifications
⦁ Parking in a non-specified location
⦁ 3= Fronting
⦁ 3= Using a car for business purposes despite a social/domestic-only policy
⦁ 5= Driving too fast or too slow
⦁ 5= Obstructed windows

One in eight (12%) UK motorists were obliged to fund vehicle repairs or pay for a replacement after their claim was partially or fully denied by their insurer – rising to 33% among 18-34s when broken down by age. This could be due to younger drivers ‘pimping their ride’ with modifications but failing to tell their insurer that they have done so.
The research revealed that £47 million worth of claims were rejected in the second half of 2021.

Given the recent threads, which have generated more heat than light, about driving too fast (or too slow) relevant to speed limits and traffic conditions, ('Speed Awareness Courses' etc), it's interesting to see that these were the fifth= reasons for the rejection of insurance claims.

(Just for information - not trolling).

'He was right, dead right as he sped along;
But he was just as dead as if he'd been wrong'.

 

[flying haggis]

Wonder how many insurers have refused claims for water damaged engines when drivers have attempted to drive through flooded roads ie rufford ford . Lots I hope! as the drivers have ONLY themselves to blame

 

[Just4Fun]

'He was right, dead right as he sped along;
But he was just as dead as if he'd been wrong'.

The version I am familiar with is:

Here lies the body of Michael Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His right was clear, his will was strong
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Interesting statistics about modifications. I wonder how that has changed over the years? My guess would be that in my youth more people modified their cars. Nowadays cars are more like sealed units and harder to modify, plus a lot of youngsters aren't learning to drive so the average age of drivers is probably rising and mods always used to be more common amongst the young. This is just based on my experience of course; I have no data to back that up.

We just put some extra lights on one of our cars and even something that simple is a nightmare. There is no dedicated wiring for headlight high beam on modern cars so to link the extra lights to the main beam means reading and responding to signals on the CAN bus. Plus it is a lot more difficult than it used to be to feed wires from the engine bay to the passenger compartment so fitting a switch is tricky. Fitting extra lights used to be considered a simple modification that most people could do for themselves but no longer it seems.

 

[artie]

All the extras I fitted to cars in my youth come as standard and lots more as well.

What extras do wee need?

 

[ajs]

All the extras I fitted to cars in my youth come as standard and lots more as well.

What extras do wee need?

Common one for many here will be a towbar. It typically won't affect premiums but should be declared regardless.

 

[artie]

Common one for many here will be a towbar. It typically won't affect premiums but should be declared regardless.

You're right, I believe that's the only extra I have. I use it so much I forgot it was an extra.
I never had one in my youth. Just spotlights, reversing lights, stereo, 8 track and later 4 track, window tint, fancy aerial, wide wheels, rally steering wheel, twin carbs, etc, etc.

I travelled the windy country road to the place of my birth a couple of weeks ago and chuckled to my self that in a Ford Kuga diesel I navigated every corner comfortably as fast as I used to bounce around them in my hot Mini thinking I was Paddy Hopkirk.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'm sure many of these conditions are imposed purely to give the insurance companies reasons to refuse paying out. An electrician who did some work for me told me one of his customers had had a serious flood whle he was on holiday causing tens of thousands of pounds of damage - his insurance would not pay out because his electrical test certificate was out of date. Totally irrelevant to the flood, of course, but that was that.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I did read somewhere that you should inform your insurance company if you put winter tyres on your car, as they are non standard.

 

[Agent_zed]

My dad got hit a couple of weeks ago with a trailer on. Turns out as mentioned above a Tow bar is a modification and as such they wouldn't pay for a new towbar replacement or the trailer (lucky the trailer was pretty worthless and he happens to have rac cover for no fault claims that will pay out on it).

He was lucky he had the best part of a ton of sand on it as a van literally ploughed into the back at 30mph whilst my dad was waiting to go around a parked car. It was a dhl driver so probably checking his phone as he didn't even brake! The sand shifted to the back of the trailer and the trailer bent the tow ball all the way up and into the bumper before the trailer hitch popped off and the trailer punched the back door. Surprisingly it didn't do any structural damage only the back door and bumper.

My insurance came up for renewal and I made sure I added towbar as a modification. Don't think it cost me anything more as was cheaper than last year.

I do always chuckle when I insure my kitcar and they ask if there are any modifications... um the entire car?!

 

[akirk]

I would take a lot of that with a hefty pinch of salt - there is case law that means that insurance can not be refused unless the reason is directly relevant to the claim - so no declared towbar as above, no insurance for towbar or trailer is reasonable - but no declared towbar and the car is hit by lightning - irrelevant and therefore they must pay out. The other let-out clause for the insurance company is if they can show that they would not have offered insurance for a car with that modification at the point of insurance - e.g. you insure a 1.0 polo and put a 5.0 v8 engine in it - most insurance companies could show that they would not have insured that car, and therefore even if hit by lightning (i.e. engine is irrelevant) they could choose to not pay out.

comment above about type of tyres is a red herring - if they are the correct size / profile etc. for your car and within manufacturer specifications for speed ratings / load carrying then you are fine - there is no basis on which an insurance company could refuse a claim - same for what fuel you put in / type of windscreen wipers you use / type of brake pads / etc. - all consumables and as long as you buy replacements suitable for your car and which are road legal you are fine...

my best experience with modifications was when insured on a range rover years ago and some road debris punched a hole through the oil filter at speed - engine went from running to solid in seconds! The insurance company sent out an engineer, they specified an engine rebuild which when done took the engine from 4.2 litres to c. 5.0 litres - all to their instruction... A couple of years later (so having renewed in-between)
- sorry sir, we can't renew this car it has an engine modification and we don't insure modified engines
- but you specified the modification and have renewed insurance since...
- sorry sir, computer says no - we have never insured modified engines...
- but... but... oh well...

Too fast / too slow is too simplistic the reality is that an accident on a bend where you are going at 70 in a 60 they will most likely pay out - doing 150 in a 30 / doughnuts / drifting / etc. probably not. As for too slow - would love to see a refused claim on that basis - how do you define too slow - other than on a motorway where there is an expectation around driving with the flow of the traffic there is almost no chance of ever being prosecuted for 'too slow' otherwise how do you slow down and stop!

fronting / business use / any other reason where you have lied to the insurance company - sure, it is fraud.

tinted windows - again, they would have to prove that the windows were material in causing the claim

so, soundbites without proper research...

generally speaking most people will never be in that situation - most people buy a car and drive it - they are honest in declarations when applying for insurance and they are not stupid in how they drive...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Major car insurance firms such as Direct Line, Aviva, Allianz and LV have stated motorists do not even need to tell them if they fit the new tyres.

However, the ABI has identified some firms which require customers to contact them to make them aware of changes.

Car Insurance providers eCar, Swiftcover and Southern Rock Insurance say customers must contact them via email or phone if they have fitted the new tyres to a car.
....................................................

Referring to winter tyres, this was from The Express, 2019, so may be out of date. It seems a bit of a grey area, area, though,

 

[Just4Fun]

I do always chuckle when I insure my kitcar and they ask if there are any modifications... um the entire car?!

What kit car do you have? What do you do with it? Pleasure drives? Track days? Competitions?

 

[Lons]

The biggest issue is that very few people read the t&c but as a general rule if any mod is not declared you're taking a risk.

My car has a towbar but it's an electric version fitted at the factory so no need to declare and trailer is insured separately.
I had a tuning box fitted to the motorhome to give better torque / driveability and declared that of course, no difference to premiums, I also declared the A frame fittings modification on the little Skoda I tow, no problem apart from a £15 extra charge.

 

[Agent_zed]

What kit car do you have? What do you do with it? Pleasure drives? Track days? Competitions?

Its a lotus 7 inspired kit made by a company (no longer exists) called Robin Hood Engineering (as they were based in Nottingham). The model I have is called a 2B as it is a tubular space frame and was being called a 'tubey' in the factory which sounded like '2b'

It is based on a ford sierra although that is mostly the running gear and a few other bits, the chassis and bodywork are all new.

I got it on the road in 2007 (after 5 years building) and drove it for many years but since covid It hasn't really moved as I needed an MOT (roadworthy test) and I've got a few things I need to do including fixing the exhaust, new seats, bodywork respray etc. I kind of lost interest in cars in the past few years as I work from home and don't have to drive so much, although the last few weeks I've been a bit more interested and I'm thinking I might try and get it on the road for Christmas.

I've been thinking for a few years though that perhaps it might be time soon to consider converting to EV as the engine is now 32 years old! and needs an overhaul and is not very efficient compared to modern engines. Being a lot more concerned about the env has changed my views a lot on driving, although I still think it is probably more env friendly to keep my kitcar going and as I re-used the big heavy parts that would otherwise have become scrap metal 20 years ago.

I've never driven particularly fast but it is super fun to be able to take corners without slowing down that much. Most cars will catch me on the straights and then I'll lose them in the corners.

 

[sploo]

my best experience with modifications was when insured on a range rover years ago and some road debris punched a hole through the oil filter at speed - engine went from running to solid in seconds! The insurance company sent out an engineer, they specified an engine rebuild which when done took the engine from 4.2 litres to c. 5.0 litres - all to their instruction... A couple of years later (so having renewed in-between)
- sorry sir, we can't renew this car it has an engine modification and we don't insure modified engines
- but you specified the modification and have renewed insurance since...
- sorry sir, computer says no - we have never insured modified engines...
- but... but... oh well...

Had a somewhat similar comedy saga some years ago when I was considering getting BMW's "M Performance" upgrade to a car; I couldn't find an insurance company that would cover it - even though it was a BMW supplied upgrade, fitted by a main dealer. BMW had their own branded insurance that would cover it... which was actually supplied by one of the insurance companies that wouldn't cover it . Didn't bother in the end.

(For clarity; I eventually learned that it was because the upgrade replaced your intercooler, and if you do that the insurance companies assume you've done it because you've replaced or modified the turbocharger without telling them)

 

[akirk]

Major car insurance firms such as Direct Line, Aviva, Allianz and LV have stated motorists do not even need to tell them if they fit the new tyres.

However, the ABI has identified some firms which require customers to contact them to make them aware of changes.

Car Insurance providers eCar, Swiftcover and Southern Rock Insurance say customers must contact them via email or phone if they have fitted the new tyres to a car.
....................................................

Referring to winter tyres, this was from The Express, 2019, so may be out of date. It seems a bit of a grey area, area, though,

Genuinely - this is is inaccurate - there is no legal basis on which an insurance company can refuse cover / claim based on tyres if those tyres are road legal / meet the manufacturer specification etc.

Sure, if they are not to manufacturer spec. then they will count as a modification, but as long as size / profile / speed rating / load carrying meet the manufacturer specification then there is no legal basis on which an insurance company can decline a claim and they do not need to be notified to the insurance company - the concept of a winter tyre is simply a marketing term - it refers to certain tread patterns and rubber compounds, it is still a tyre!

if it ever happened, then the simply response would be to challenge the insurance company as to the basis for refusal - if the tyre is within manufacturer spec. they would have no basis for refusal - they can't claim it as a modification if it is within manufacturer spec. - only if it either does, or has the potential to cause roadworthy issues - and nothing within spec. would do that. It isn't a modification because the specific tyre (outside some high end cars) is not a specified part of the car original equipment or sale - all that is specified will be the technical parameters...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't shoot the messenger. here's the complete article (I did say it was 2019 so things may have changed)
https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...ance-uk-invalidate-policy-winter-uk-frost-ice
it would appear there are still a few.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets...-driving---the-motor-insurance-commitment.pdf

 

[Blackswanwood]

This thread should be retitled "Urban Myths about insurance".

It's easy to spout on about insurance companies collecting premiums and finding dubious reasons to not pay claims. The reality is though that declined claims where the policyholder feels unfairly treated end up being considered by the Financial Ombudsman Service. The FOS consider both the actual terms and conditions as well as whether they are reasonable and can be readily understood by the policyholder. If they are unreasonable or fall into the "hidden small print" category they make a binding ruling against the insurer.

In the case of the few obscure companies who ask to be notified if winter tyres are fitted it wouldn't be a valid reason to decline a claim if it hadn't been made clear to the policyholder that this was a requirement. I'd expect the test to be quite high in those circumstances as to what making it clear means as it's not something that would naturally be thought of by (to use the legal phrase) "the man on the top of the Clapham Omnibus".

 

[akirk]

Don't shoot the messenger. here's the complete article (I did say it was 2019 so things may have changed)
https://www.express.co.uk/life-styl...ance-uk-invalidate-policy-winter-uk-frost-ice
it would appear there are still a few.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets...-driving---the-motor-insurance-commitment.pdf

No shooting of messengers
however, the ABI link is also 4 years old, and the Express is hardly the most rigorous of journalistic outlets and it is fairly typical clickbait - a contract has to be reasonable as well as legal - and at is simplest level an insurance company has to be able to demonstrate how they would either not have insured the car at the outset had they known / or that the changes have played a material role in the accident / claim or that there was a fraudulent element to the insurance application...

so if an insurance company says up front that they won't insure a car on winter tyres (or blue cars / or cars with a sunroof / etc.) and the applicant lies and then has an accident on winter tyres - then it was a fraudulent application and the claim can be denied.

Otherwise it becomes very tricky to deny - there are no tyres on sale which don't meet UK standards, so as long as all the other attributes meet manufacturer spec. you are fine.

I suspect that if you were to phone up an insurance company you might get someone on the phone who has no idea and might say anything - they might not even know what a winter tyre is and assume it is a modification - but they are wrong it can not be a modification to use something that meets the manufacturer's spec.

This was all known and accepted in the industry when I worked in writing policy etc. over 20 years ago - nothing has changed since then...

 

[Just4Fun]

Its a lotus 7 inspired kit made by a company (no longer exists) called Robin Hood Engineering (as they were based in Nottingham). The model I have is called a 2B as it is a tubular space frame and was being called a 'tubey' in the factory which sounded like '2b'

Nice. I have come across them before. I'm sure it is a fun car. You really should get it out again.