Record plane iron

[jaspr]

Hi everyone

I have an old iron in my Record plane (no. 5) - it is labelled "Record Best Crucible Cast Tungsten Steel".

It seems very hard. Can anyone tell me what type of steel it is. I mean how does it relate to what I'm used to seeing labelled as O1, A2, D2, etc?

It seems to sharpen up ok, but it takes a lot of work. Is it worth using? Should I give some more money to Mr Hock?

Appreciate your help.

jas

 

[bugbear]

Hi everyone

I have an old iron in my Record plane (no. 5) - it is labelled "Record Best Crucible Cast Tungsten Steel".

It seems very hard. Can anyone tell me what type of steel it is. I mean how does it relate to what I'm used to seeing labelled as O1, A2, D2, etc?

It seems to sharpen up ok, but it takes a lot of work. Is it worth using? Should I give some more money to Mr Hock?

Appreciate your help.

jas

Those blades are pretty good, but not as good as Hock. The after market blades are a little thicker, and the thickness makes a big difference.

The steel in your blade is probably closest to O1, in terms of current nomenclature.

But your blade sounds good - unless you're feeling flush, I'd spend your Hock money somewhere that needs it.

BugBear

 

[jaspr]

Thanks BugBear.

I think I'll stick with it a while. I have a Hock blade in another plane and if I can't bear the difference, then I might upgrade this one.

Cheers

jaspr

 

[Jarviser]

That blade marking is pre 1960 and they take a nice edge. Need to do a lot of work on the plane and cap iron to fit a thicker blade properly. I would stick with the old one.

 

[Smudger]

I agree. I bought a couple of Records and refurbed them, and Andy my Guru properly sharpened the irons (called 'cutters' on Records, I believe) - I was very impressed.
If you can, get hold of a Stay-Set back iron. They fit directly into the plane without modification and make a huge difference, as the iron is held very firmly at three points along its length. They are also slightly thicker with a shallower chip breaker. As Mr C. W. Hampton says, they eliminate the possibility of chatter entirely. On the Bay SS planes go for a premium but IMHO are worth it (on the basis of using a total of one!)

When you have finished the longish process of regrinding and honing the cutter don't, whatever you do, try it out on a piece of wood held in a poorly tightened engineering vice. DAMHIK.

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you can, get hold of a Stay-Set back iron. They fit directly into the plane without modification and make a huge difference, as the iron is held very firmly at three points along its length. They are also slightly thicker with a shallower chip breaker. As Mr C. W. Hampton says, they eliminate the possibility of chatter entirely. On the Bay SS planes go for a premium but IMHO are worth it (on the basis of using a total of one!)

Smudger,

If you get a second-hand Record from the 60s or earlier with a frog like the one on the right in this picture

and add a Clifton two-piece cap iron, you will in effect have a Stay-set version of a Record (and much cheaper than paying the premium price just to get "SS" stamped on the lever cap). The Record and Clifton Stay-Set cap irons are identical. I agree with you, they are excellent - I have them on all my planes

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

Ah, you see in the 40s/50s our school bought LOADS of SS cap irons...

They are still in a cupboard somewhere, and I think I might know where it is!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Ah, you see in the 40s/50s our school bought LOADS of SS cap irons...

They are still in a cupboard somewhere, and I think I might know where it is!

That's not fair

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

That's not half of it! Imagine a small room, 10' x 4', full of planes aqnd plane parts. About 100 #4s, mostly records, boxes of knobs, irons, cap irons, lever caps. Imagine a place where you can go and say 'I've lost the depth stop off my #50 - oh, thanks." Or, "Can I compare a well fettled Stanley, a LN and a Mathieson infill back to back, please? Ta."

The depth comes from the fact that in the 30s and 40s our school was 'technical' - lots of woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing. We have 2 excellent wood teachers and a head of technology who is a very competent hobbyist, and we still teach carpentry and joinery, usually get an Arkwright Award finalist most years. A lot of the equipment was bought up when other schools ditched woodwork altogether.

It is interesting that someone is selling a lot of ex-school stuff on the Bay, especially Record T5s (we've still got a few unused in their boxes...) and #4s, which were by far the most common planes in schools. My copy of Planecraft is ex-college, as it was the standard book used with 'technical' students. For a retirement present I'm thinking of asking for 10 minutes in the stock cupboard...

The wood workshops are a lovely place to go to escape stress! And its very nice to have conversations about tools and techniques with 14 year-olds who are learning the 'old-fashioned' way - hands on and oily!

 

[Paul Chapman]

So that's where all the school stuff went My Record #05 Stay Set, which I picked up for £20 in a second-hand shop, was an ex-school plane. It's engraved "LCC" for London County Council. Very nice condition (after I cleaned it up). Let's know if they ever want to sell off one of those unopened T5s - I remember learning to plane with one of those at school back in the 1950s

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

Ha! I think they are thoroughly spoken for!

We learned with #4s, IIRC, but I stopped doing Wood in the third year (went to new school that only did metal) so perhaps I never got to 'big' planes.

I looked up the Clifton 2-part cap irons - looks like a good idea for not much money - why doesn't everybody do it?

 

[Paul Chapman]

I looked up the Clifton 2-part cap irons - looks like a good idea for not much money - why doesn't everybody do it?

Many people don't like them. I think they're great

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

Some people obviously still like 'em - a 4 1/2 SS has just made $202 on the Bay...

 

[Benchwayze]

My Luckiest find was a Record No 4, which was my first SS. Found it in a box, under a stall-holder's table at an antique fair. (I have even heard of people thinking that the removable 'cap' means the plane is broken! )


The body was rusty, so after haggling it cost £8.00. It's now my favourite smoother. Better even than my Spiers infill 'coffin-shaped' plane. (I adjust that with 3 lb ball-pein hammer.) :wink:

eBay is fairly well-stocked with Bedrocks and compass planes at the moment btw.

Happy Bidding folks
John

 

[Smudger]

Best place to find them - they are going for silly prices on eBay at the moment. I paid £20 for a 4 and 4 1/2, both a bit battered but refurbable, and the 4 is sweet.

I found a #5 at a boot sale today, but the sole was so rusted that it was scrap. A great pity. I haven't started buying planes for spare parts yet - should I? Is that a steeper slope?

I also found a Stanley USA #5 with a Stanley frog, Record lever cap and Y-piece, anonymous iron. No tote and rather odd knob. Again, so rusted it wasn't worth the bother, unless anyone knows where I can get spooge in the UK.

 

[Hokie]

Did you see the condition of that $202 record? It was mint with the box.

 

[Benchwayze]

Ah, you see in the 40s/50s our school bought LOADS of SS cap irons...

They are still in a cupboard somewhere, and I think I might know where it is!

That's not fair

Cheers :wink:

Paul

All is fair in love and woodwork.
John

 

[Benchwayze]

I agree with Paul. Find a plane with a full-face frog, and fit a Clifton 'stay-set' chip-breaker' and better blade, and you have the same effect as a SS cap-iron.

John

 

[Smudger]

I've picked up some SS irons and some Cliftons. They seem pretty much the same at first sight. They do seem to clamp the iron pretty well.

 

[Benchwayze]

Smudger,

YES....

At the right price, buy planes for 'scrappers'. For instance:

It is surprising when the handle of your favourite smoother will break. OK you can make another, but having spare handle lying around will keep you going. I have a nice stock of irons from old wooden planes. I keep the blades sharp against the time when I get around to making that 'Krenov' inspired wooden smother!

Seriously, buy any reasonable plane at the right price, especially if it's from pre-1940. If only because it might well be older than me!

(An Acorn cap iron might not look so good, but if it works, it will keep a Stanley or Record doing its job, until you find a proper replacement part. )

All the best .
John