Which anvil?

[Chris152]

We're looking to do a little forging and plenty of panel beating and have started looking for an anvil with holes for accessories. I guess somewhere from 30 - 50 kg would be good.
What are the differences between forged steel, cast steel and cast iron anvils? I've done a bit of reading but am still not at all clear - here's a summary I found:

'Cast steel- weldable, malleable, and very sturdy for an anvil.
Cast Iron- brittle, and not so good for an anvil.
Forged-weldable, very strong.'

And, is it better to go vintage, used (in general) or new? Do older ones come in all three flavours?

As examples, Vevor have a 30kg one, forged steel, for about £85 and it gets good reviews;
they have a 60kg cast steel one for £230 (tho the details say it's 'drop-forged, high-grade steel - is that cast?);
and ebay has lovely vintage ones (they tend not to state manufacturing method) for much more money.

I'd appreciate any advice you can offer.
Thanks, Chris

eta - I've also read that cast steel makes less of a deafening ring. Is that right? - noise matters as we have neighbours!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Interesting site - Anvils | Tools & Equipment for Blacksmiths, Tinsmiths & Foundries - Forgings & Fabrications

The way to test them from what I've read is to bounce a ball bearing on them. They're crepe if it doesn't bounce well.

 

[johnnyb]

Cast iron aren't anvils as there rubbish. That leaves cast steel and wrought iron with a tool steel top.. brooks are great cast steel anvils. They ring loudly but are superb. Most vintage anvils are wrought iron. Peter Wright are probably the best. Wilkinson, Mousehole etc. Are older.

 

[Sideways]

There is some chat and links in this older thread that may be worth a read

Benchtop Anvil

Nothing fancy here, just sharing a couple of photos of cleaning up some old light gauge rail to use as a benchtop anvil for tin smithing. The metal is the point of interest. Dating back to the 1800's it is scrap rail from canal side coal yards. Wrought iron. Scrap pieces like this were commonly...

www.ukworkshop.co.uk

The little benchtop block I machined up is made of wrought iron and without a hardened top is very soft.

I found this link at the time and found the content quite excellent:

Anvils: A beginner buyers guide

Ok chaps - I can't for the life of me remember if I ever posted this here before so mods please feel to move/ remove as necessary. This is a very long read so go get a nice beverage and settle in - we seem to have a number of folks getting into blacksmithing at the minute and this is a post I...

bushcraftuk.com

 

[Fergie 307]

We're looking to do a little forging and plenty of panel beating and have started looking for an anvil with holes for accessories. I guess somewhere from 30 - 50 kg would be good.
What are the differences between forged steel, cast steel and cast iron anvils? I've done a bit of reading but am still not at all clear - here's a summary I found:

'Cast steel- weldable, malleable, and very sturdy for an anvil.
Cast Iron- brittle, and not so good for an anvil.
Forged-weldable, very strong.'

And, is it better to go vintage, used (in general) or new? Do older ones come in all three flavours?

As examples, Vevor have a 30kg one, forged steel, for about £85 and it gets good reviews;
they have a 60kg cast steel one for £230 (tho the details say it's 'drop-forged, high-grade steel - is that cast?);
and ebay has lovely vintage ones (they tend not to state manufacturing method) for much more money.

I'd appreciate any advice you can offer.
Thanks, Chris

eta - I've also read that cast steel makes less of a deafening ring. Is that right? - noise matters as we have neighbours!

Cast is pouring molten metal into a mould. Drop forged is usually using a dirty great mechanical hammer or a ram to squash the metal into shape, and results in a much stronger product.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I suspect he meant differences in use rather than in manufacture.

 

[clogs]

there's a lot of modified railway line anvils on Utuube....all depends on what work ur doing.....
I have a couple of pieces I use on an old tree stump outside the works.....
antique anvils are mad money as the fashionista's want for the garden....
have a brew and look at this.....

 

[clogs]

hope u liked the vid....
I just love metal......oh, and wood......

 

[imageel]

hope u liked the vid....
I just love metal......oh, and wood......

Loved the video, I've seen Will before on his metalwork channels - he's a very talented young guy

 

[Chris152]

Thanks for the replies all - I'm going to work through the links later and get back to you.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Buy the best you can afford.

At the big workshop we have 2. Both 3 feet long.
Both cast, one of iron and the other of steel. Both strapped down to a large stump of English Oak.

The iron one was a left over from the farms old forge, very good for rough hot work.
The steel was liberated from a Scrap yard, cleaned up and is better for doing finer work.
We have two bench top ones, one shop brought and the other from a length od rail track.

 

[Fergie 307]

I suspect he meant differences in use rather than in manufacture.

I thought when he said,
tho the details say it's 'drop-forged, high-grade steel - is that cast?);
he was in some confusion about the different terms?

 

[heimlaga]

There are two types of cast iron anvils:
1. Old American ones with a spring steel plate fire welded to the top. They tend to crack with age are very difficult bordering impossible to repair but as long as they least they are decent usable anvils. Few were imported to Europe. They are no longer made and haven't been made for decades.
2. Anvils made entirely from cast iron. Older ones are usually of Eastern Bloc origin and newer ones are often Chineese whatever they purport to be. They are only good for garden ornaments and buoy anchors. Completely useless as anvils. The face is too soft and after a while they crack.

Cast steel anvils are very good. They last long and once they are worn out after wearing out two or three blacksmiths they can usually be repaired. Some are easy to repair and some difficult. It depends on the exact composition of the metal.

Forged iron anvils without a hard face is the oldest type. All that still exist today are badly worn out but they are easy to hardface using a 200 ampere stick welder and some special hardfaciong rods in the 5mm variety.

Forged iron anvils with a face of spring steel fire welded to the body are very good. When they finally wear out efter wearing out two or three blacksmiths they are easy to repair with hardfacing rod.

My oppinion is that 40 kg is the minimum size for serous forging. 60-80 kg is way better. I forge on a 40 kg anvil while hoping to find time to repair the 80 kg hard faced forged iron anvil I found at the scrap yard and bought for 30 or 40 euros. It needs a new horn and a new face.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

newer ones are often Chineese whatever they purport to be. They are only good for garden ornaments and buoy anchors. Completely useless as anvils. The face is too soft and after a while they crack...

I have a small cheap one for jewellery - the face marks when beating copper on it.

 

[Chris152]

Well, after lots of searching and reading/ watching, I'm inclined to think the DIY route is best for us, tho still not 100% sure how to go about it.

Those threads you linked to Sideways - they have some really good ideas. I've managed to source a few lump hammers, an old sledge hammer and some cold chisels for under £20 (not collected them yet), but all look like they could be made to lend themselves to sheet metal shaping (dolly-anvil type things) with a simple forge and some welding.
But we still need something to hammer the shapes onto and the nearest 'un-anvilised' (pre-cleaned up ones on ebay) rail track I can find is in Taunton, which is too far all things into account. So maybe we could go with this 'cheap' anvil:

VEVOR Blacksmith Steel Anvil 66lb 30kg Round&Flat Horns 2 Holes for Metal Work | eBay

Why Choose VEVOR?. VEVOR Steel Anvil Blacksmith 22lbs 10kg Round & Flat Horns Large Countertop. VEVOR Steel Anvil Blacksmith 44lbs 22kg Round & Flat Horns Large Countertop. VEVOR Steel Anvil Blacksmith 132lb 60kg Round & Flat Horns Large Countertop.

www.ebay.co.uk

says it's drop forged, but no mention of a hardened top (any thoughts on that?). I guess we could get it for 80.

There's a splendid 1 1/4 cwt Brooks on a stand nearby but it's at auction and already £200, plenty of time to go.

We like the idea of making for ourselves, but that Vevor one looks half decent and probably not much more expensive than setting out on the road in search of railway track elsewhere. The purpose of the anvil is to make and hopefully hold the dolly-anvils we'll make for sheet metal shaping (for car restoration), and should be useful for hammering in general.

Many thanks for all the replies, really helpful.

 

[Chris152]

I suspect he meant differences in use rather than in manufacture.

I actually meant manufacture, Phil - I was getting confused by the suitability of anvils made by different methods, and probably was confused in what I wrote

 

[Chris152]

hope u liked the vid....
I just love metal......oh, and wood......

My preference is wood, but since my lad decided metal would be his career, I've lost the garage and key wood kit and replaced it with a lathe, mill, welders and a rotten mg midget. Happy days! (Actually, I'm really enjoying learning new things - not that I was anywhere near stopping learning how to shape wood...).

 

[Inspector]

If I am not reliving high school shop classes and only imagining them, the sheet metal workstation was a thick plate (1"?) about 1' x 3' long roughly mid thigh high with Hardy, Prichard holes, etc in it. The different sheet metal stakes/anvils were placed and used as needed, then pulled when done. There was no traditional anvil anywhere near it. If you had the stakes you could have a sheet of steel plasma cut for them and legs welded to the underside.

STAKE FORMING ANVIL HARDY TOOL BLACKSMITH TINSMITH Cut Off Cutter | eBay

<p>This stake forming anvil hardy tool is the perfect addition to any blacksmith or tinsmith's collection. Its versatile design allows for a variety of uses in both forging and shaping metal. Made from high-quality materials, this tool is sure to last for years to come.</p><br /><p>The featured...

www.ebay.ca

Stakes and Stake Anvils : anvilfire Anvil Gallery Halfway down the page.

Pete

 

[Chris152]

I'd not seen one of those Pete - I guess it's kind of like a smith's swage block can be used for holding the stakes. But we still need something to shape the stakes onto (once we've made a little forge, of course), and the best option looks like a cheaper anvil in the absence of railway line? We'll keep looking for alternatives before hitting 'buy' though.

 

[Stevekane]

I suspect there might not be enough “mass” in it for proper smithing work, but I use a lump of RSG as my anvil and for me it works just great, Im sure I did see somone on utube or the net that had through bolted a couple of oak blocks into the web to beef it up further, the top and bottom are tapered so it would be easy pull them in good and tight, made it look good and workmanlike too.