random thoughts about dust handling

[engineer one]

that works for me,the ultimate re-cycling :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[RogerS]

I sometimes where a mask with P1 or P2 filters which are supposed to filter out stuff pretty effectively....and the thought occurred to me while I was working recently ...why can I smell the wood? What is in the air that presumably has this fragrance from the wood? Sub..sub..sub micron dust? Or maybe my light beard prevents a proper seal?

 

[CHJ]

I sometimes

Big Wrist Slap for that Admission Roger..

..and the thought occurred to me while I was working recently ...why can I smell the wood? What is in the air that presumably has this fragrance from the wood?

Most Likely volatile substances such as turpentine containing other wood type specific volatiles.

Other things to watch regardless of dust containment are the 'fumes' from such substances as Cellulose Thinners used in sealers etc. which can rapidly sensitize your sinus system or penetrate the skin if you do not wear glove protection whilst applying.

 

[engineer one]

now we are beginning to get an interesting and sensible discussion.

i know from personal experience, and talking with others, that the
biggest complaint most customers have is the dust when building
or carpentry work is done, and that the contractor does not
clean up afterwards

also they always say, you would not
believe where the dust ended up, IT TRAVELS in the air,
so why don't we just be a bit more aware, and ask the questions.

if it is your workshop, they are your lungs, sinuses and breathing
tubes, but on site who knows. :?

paul :wink:

maybe it was a good memory test roger :twisted:

 

[CHJ]

Unfortunately Paul, dust containment on site costs money, and whereas on a major contract involving HSE oversite it should be factored into the cost I doubt that a private home owning customer would be willing to cover the cost of even partial containment. The sealing of rooms and removal of settlement dust could in many instances be an additional two days work and involve significant material/equipment cost.

 

[engineer one]

chas you are absolutely right i do understand, but if the dust production
is contained more within the machine itself, that would help.

an analogy yesterday i was at the london wetlands centre in
barnes and i got a receipt, then today i was at my local shopping
centre, and bought one item in a couple of shops, and you end up
with a receipt that appears to be the same length as when you buy a dozen, why? seems to me that if we are supposed to be protecting
the environment, then there ought to be a way to produce more
sensible receipts :twisted:

i do however think that rather like water saving, if we only do a little,
it will have a decent imact on our own lives, but if we don't talk
about it, we don't know what works.

anyway i agree for an amateur, a complete inspection is unrealistic,
but a number of little things will i think help, and a decent clean up every
time you work has to be a good first step, but then as i have said
if your vacuum spills more dust when you load it into the garbage bag,
kind of makes it seem senseless.

anyway having started down the route, and interested in the cyclone debate too, i will do my little bits to improve my working environment,
and pass on anything i find that might be useful for discussion or use
by others.

paul :wink:

 

[Inspector]

Since the dust that I produce in my home shop gets put out in clear bags that are picked up and taken with all the yard waste in the neighborhood for composting, My conscience is relatively clear with that aspect of my hobby.

Any dust escaping to the outside (especially if I take the project outside to sand) may fall under the concerns you have for the world around me, but I weigh that against the fact that it is organic and will return to the earth when it settles on the neighbors shrubs, and again I'm OK with it.

When I compare those indiscretions to what I witness when driving to work in my 4 cyl truck, being passed by dozens of 6,8 and 10 liter cars and trucks commuting also, and their spouses taking their spawn to school or hockey practice and then going to get a Starbucks whatever. Along with tire burnouts all over the road, that were laid down by street racers having a little fun smoking their tires. I don't think that I, or any and all that belong to or read this forum, collectively amount anything of any significance.

Consumption of energy to support our woodworking habits in the form of producing, transporting, and working with wood and machines is more significant. That is a much bigger problem that falls under the impact of all Human activities on the Planet.

There is one less now in our Solar system, so makes it more precious. :wink:

 

[engineer one]

inspector, remember i am really concerned about my lungs, and i
agree that our dust is recycleable, but it is personal, not environmental
to me. :?

but i do agree with many of your other comments.

paul :wink:

 

[RogerS]

Consumption of energy to support our woodworking habits in the form of producing, transporting, and working with wood and machines is more significant. That is a much bigger problem that falls under the impact of all Human activities on the Planet.

Patio heaters. Now there is an obscene waste of energy/high negative impact on the environment

 

[David C]

Paul,

I totally agree that we should do everything can, and have long believed that the dust extraction provided on most machinery is a disgrace.

Also suspect that cheap bag extractors are nothing more than fine dust pumps, and it is the finest dust which is the most dangerous.

The medium sized de walt router with the fat pillar is virtually the only router with well designed, reasonably effective, dust extraction. How many years before the nasty plastic afterthoughts are no longer necessary? I can never entirely decide if manufacturers are just stupid, or criminally and cynically incompetent.

My Knapp sliding table saw has a 5" diam. inlet, this is choked down to an aperture less than 3" X 1" area, which is sited about ten inches away from the source of dust production, ie the blade. This useless set up is clearly designed by engineers who know nothing about dust extraction. There are also no gaiters or means of keeping dust out of the tilt or rise and fall mechanisms, which seize up from time to time, and are virtually impossible to access for cleaning.

We should do everything possible to avoid fine dust inhalation.
Enjoyed that rant,
David Charlesworth

 

[woodbloke]

Whilst I agree that everything should be done to minimise the inhalation of fine dust, I wonder how many of us on the forum use tobacco either as in a pipe, cigars or the totally obnoxious cigarettes. Whilst not wanting to be holier than anyone else the use of 'baccy in any of its forms is going to infinitely more dangerous than the inhalation of a small amount of wood dust, particulary if a P2 mask or Airshield is used in the workshop - Rob

 

[engineer one]

dc its nice to see you ranting about something other than sharpening :twisted:

as i said at the beginning, this is not meant to be holier than,
it is trying to get some decent discussion on how we impact in a
small way our own lives and thus add less to the overall mess.

for years, so called passive smoking was ignored, but now it seems
that in california they are trying to ban smoking on the beaches and
in the open air, so some day that may be carried out against
dusty old machines.

we all know that were woodworking to begin as an interest today,
rather than be well established, much of what we do would be banned
by the do gooders, all i said was how can we this small group
do a little to get better extraction from the manufacturers,
better designed disposal. :?

paul :wink:

 

[CHJ]

...snip... all i said was how can we this small group
do a little to get better extraction from the manufacturers,
better designed disposal. :?

paul :wink:

Take away their vested interests in selling add-on dust handling kit :?: :twisted: If Only...

I personally think that all Powered Machines should have a "Hazardous Substances" rating similar to Noise regulations, no doubt this would initially create a ramp in prices for the better compliance machines until such time as manufactures got used to the idea of building in better characteristics at the design stage.

I would like to see prominent Hazard Level Badges on all Chip/Dust collectors for a start, distributers printed guides may meet the letter of the law but they do nothing for subsequent Users or Bystanders totally unaware of the risks.

" All persons exposed to the environment within which this machine is working should wear a protective mask rated at P2 minimum"

 

[engineer one]

chas. like it,

as i have said from the beginning, does not matter whether it is your
trend vacuum, dyson, or other vacuum cleaners, they all make it
difficult to remove the dust bag/collector, and whether it is wood
working, or just general cleaning, what is the point of collecting it
safely, i.e using a mask, and the being slammed by dust when
you dispose of the collection.

as someone who both built on the production line, and helped with
design manufacture in a car plant, i know that most items in
production are designed to be produced, rather than for
subsequent repair, or in our case, used safely and cleanly. :twisted:

chas is right, when cleaning up the dust collector, you should use a mask.
but it is a b****r when you have collected all the dust, and then as
you try to dispose of it, it spills all over the place.
:?
paul
:wink:

 

[RogerS]

We could all lobby our respective MEPs.

 

[engineer one]

roger, apart from being on a bloody great gravy train, never sure what
MEP's do. :? :twisted:

but we could each do our little bits. as we upgrade, or have to buy new
machines or equipment, we should consider rejecting those from people
who do not take extraction seriously. :twisted:

as i have said before, my 4 year old bosch 150 random orbit sander
has the most amazing dust extraction so there is one to start. :lol:
maybe others when they test and review, could test for decent
extraction and report thereon, then we would have an additional
guide.

paul :wink: