quick question....poll included

[jeffinfrance]

should a parallel fence (table saw) actually be ...parallel?

according to my fence supplier it shouldn't. apparently it should splay away from the blade at the far end once past the saw blade to prevent burning.

my rudimentary understanding of maths and physics tells me this would offer up the piece at an angle to the saw blade (when using the fence as it should when ripping, ie not extending past the blade). when using the fence incorrectly, ie long past the blade, i can see the point as the riving knife will take over to guide the piece and not snag on the splayed fence.

what do you guys think?

jeff

 

[cambournepete]

Not that I really know, but I think it should be parallel, and be adjustable front to back so that when ripping real wood as opposed to man-made boards, the fence stops at about the centre of the blade to allow the wood room to relax (ie bend).

 

[Benchwayze]

Always have mine parallel.

The riving knife should keep the blade from pinching, which helps avoid burning. If the fence does veer off parallel, it should be away from the blade and diverge by only the smallest fraction of a mm.

Don't forget, if you are ripping to size, you will usually allow some extra for planing afterwards and if the stuff is going through a thicknesser, that process make both edges of the stock parallel.

HTH

John

 

[jeffinfrance]

hi john, pete, thanks for the replies.

i am cutting panels for wardrobe cabinets, so other than lipping one or two edges, i need finished edges using the saw. also for the lipping it is much easier to have my panels all exactly the same size to take off a couple of mm for fitting the lipping, which would obviously also be exactly the same size.

while i'm here, may as well cast my vote too

jeff

 

[jlawrence]

Yes, a parallel fence should be parallel. Whether it should extend past the center of the blade is another matter entirely.

 

[Sportique]

Not an expert by any means, but this is my idea of the geometry involved:

For the moment, putting aside the question of the length of the fence.

From the exagerated drawing below, a number of issues are raised by having a non-parallel fence:

1. The rear edge of the blade is more likely to contact the work even with a riving knife in place, kick-back?
2. The kerf is wider than normal
3. With a non-parallel fence it is difficult to make accurate measurements for the cut

???

Dave

 

[jeffinfrance]

spot on there dave. nice graphic by the way.

i have paralleld my fence.....took 9 thicknesses of 80gsm paper to do it, that was one wonky fence!

however, as i am using a combi, this only solves the problem for cuts up to 300mm. anything wider than that and my fence starts to sit on my planer outfeed table which is not lined up to my saw table accurately. THANK YOU FELDER!

so now i'm loosing 200 euros a day waiting for another technician.

what did i do in a previous life to warrant this machine?

jeff

 

[jeffinfrance]

can anyone who thinks NO, please give a reason why, as i really dont understand.

thanks,

jeff

 

[WhyDi]

Good Morning
Is the rip fence parallel to the blade on my table saw ? I really don't know but as time goes by I tuned up the fence so that the rear teeth of the blade slightly touched the workpiece. This is really easy and quick to achieve and doesn't require any measurement : just a good hearing . That way I get accurate parallel cuts and satisfying edges in term of quality without applying too much pressure toward the face of the fence. when the fence was too tight against the rear teeth I got tear out on the top and when it was too far the workpiece tended to go away from the fence.
Best regards

 

[Mr T]

Hi

I tend to set the fence so there is a slight lead. This is only about 0.4mm over 600mm. This prevents binding and marking from the upcutting teeth. I have never noticed any problems from this arrangement.

Perhaps the truth is that it doesn't matter which way you do it!

Chris

 

[chippy1970]

I voted yes but I can see what they are saying, on my ts55 track saw the blade isnt parallel to the rail its not supposed to be I might be wrong but I think its called toe in where the back of the blade is slightly away from the rail further than the front of the blade. As I say id imagine a tablesaw should be parallel.

 

[Benchwayze]

spot on there dave. nice graphic by the way.

i have paralleld my fence.....took 9 thicknesses of 80gsm paper to do it, that was one wonky fence!

however, as i am using a combi, this only solves the problem for cuts up to 300mm. anything wider than that and my fence starts to sit on my planer outfeed table which is not lined up to my saw table accurately. THANK YOU FELDER!

so now i'm loosing 200 euros a day waiting for another technician.

what did i do in a previous life to warrant this machine?

jeff

Sorry to hear of your troubles Jeff. More and more I feel I made the right decision by not going for a Felder some 15 years ago. I got something less expensive. Maybe Ruskin wasn't entirely right when he cautioned against buying on price alone!

Regards
John

 

[jasonB]

I'm with Whydi on this I have never actually measured my fence, it just got adjusted until I was happy with the cut and that was it. Well I've redone it a couple of times when its taken a knock from a large board or timber. This is something that will happen from time to time I suggest you learn how to tweak the fence so you don't have to wait for an engineer to come if (when)it happens to you.

I don't see how the level of the outfeed table will affect the relationship between blade and fence, yes it may tilt downwards but can't see it moving sideways.

Did they not do any test cuts when setting the machine up? you say you can't use the machine while waiting for the engineer does this mean you have not been able to use it since you got it?

Jason

 

[Mr T]

I've had a Felder saw spindle for the last couple of years. I bought it second hand, it's about 9 years old, I've not had any major problems with it and I've been very pleased with the performance. However I have found Felder fairly unresponsive when I have contacted them about various small parts I needed.

Chris

 

[jeffinfrance]

hello jason,

i've managed to tweak the fence parallel, but only for the surface of the saw table. the planer outfeed is one half of the machine table and the front edges don't line up. therein lies the problem. ironically they did line up better before the last visit from the engineer to level the machine. i didn't think to check he hadn't done any damage, i just checked he had done the adjustments.

i can use the machine, just not the parallel fence for cuts wider than 300mm, which is somewhat limiting when i have 11 boards to turn into wardrobes.

i didn't find this problem before as i havn't needed the precision before, because everything i cut then went through the planer.

i need to check my spindle fences too now. i have noticed slight irregularities when moulding (normally just at the trailing end). before i put this down to operater error as i'm new to spindle use. there is play in the hood/fence unit when fitting to the table. i set the in and out fence in line level with the cutting edge of the tool, then wind back the entire assembly 2mm, then wind forward the out fence 2mm. i am not however getting a true cut all the time. this could still be my inexperience so i'll keep an eye on it.

my main problem has been trusting the machine to be proper. if i wanted to spend half my day setting up my machine, i would have bought a cheaper one!

jeff

 

[Benchwayze]

Some you win some you lose, I suppose.

We hear a lot about how bad a certain tool firm is, but in all honesty, I have bought stuff from them, at bargain prices and never had anything to complain about; delivery or after-sales.

Although to be fair, 'T' Track and castors don't tend to give much trouble!


John

 

[WhyDi]

Good morning,
You wrote you can't use the rip fence for parallel cuts wider than 300mm but that kind of combination machine typically comes with a wagon carriage right to the blade, isn't it ? if so you might perform such cut on the sliding table as shown in that document . 11 cuts are worth the time spent to adjust.

By the way, I known everything you described in your previous message but have never found hard to cope with :?: .
Best Regards

 

[Mr T]

Hi Jeff

This may be an insultingly simple question, but when winding the spindle fence back and forth do you allow for any slack in the winding mechanism. When setting mine I usually set the fences level then run a piece over the cutter and wind the out feed fence up to the cut edge. Not very mathematical I know, but it seems to work.

Chris

 

[jeffinfrance]

what a top tip chris, thank you.

i'll give that a go and see if i get better results.

jeff

 

[moz]

Only just seen this thread so here goes. Sawblades do not run perfectly true though obviously some are better than others. If they did, then a parallel fence may result in a clean cut. In practise, what happens is that the blade re-cuts as the work passes by the rear of the blade. You can hear it and can see the criss-cross result of it. On veneered boards, this may even cause some damage by having the effect of lifting the veneer.

Kick back is a red herring. A typical blade has a kerf of 3.2mm and a plate of 2.2. so there is 0.5mm clearance between the plate and the cut work on each side. Kickback is the result of work pinching the plate, not the teeth and work or waste will come nowhere near. Toe-out on the rip fence should be a matter of a mere 2 or 3 thou or so. It is the offcut that toes inward and will barely glance the teeth.

One way to achieve this is with a block gauge and feeler gauges. Measure a tooth distance from the fence then rotate the tooth to the rear and measure the same tooth again. This adjustment is commonly carried out by ear and sight though.

Sliding tables are similarly adjusted to toe out slightly for the same reason. You can do this with a dial guage first registering against a tooth at the leading edge, then rotating the blade and moving the sliding table and gauge forward to re-measure the same tooth at the rear. Again, it is often done by ear.

Someone recently asked me about clamping to the slider while using it as support while guiding with the rip fence. Hopefully, the above will make it clear that this is not good practice. On a saw set up as described, rip fence and sliding table actually diverge from each other so clamping should only be done, strictly speaking, when the work is to the left of the blade.

In short, you get a much cleaner cut with a tiny run-out away from the rear of the blade.

John