Because I'm a good boy and do as I was taught, I never let my planes sit on the bench on their blades - I always put something under the front of the sole as you're supposed to (or lay it on it's side). But - does it really matter if you sit your plane on its blade - does it really blunt them or do them harm??
Putting planes down flat
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Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Any truly sharp blade....that has recently been sharpened will deteriorate when abused in any way. I notice the edge "goes off" my planes even by simply leaving them in a slightly damp garage for a few weeks. Though you cant even see it with the naked eye...the edge has slightly rusted enough to go off the boil.
If you wash kitchen knives in the dishwasher....same thing...they go off the boil. Knives left loose in a drawer will all blunt quickly due to the smacking of the edges against other things.
So in theory...if you really carefully, ever so gently laid your plane down on the blade...on a purely wooden surface then the wrapping over of the edge should be minimal. However, slammed down with little or no thought to the edge will put it at greater risk.
Bottom line, if you're roughing stock its not going to matter much. If you're block planing hardwood end grain on a decorative box....you want to minimise all risks to the edge...so why would you place it flat...when by placing on its side you take zero risk.
If you wash kitchen knives in the dishwasher....same thing...they go off the boil. Knives left loose in a drawer will all blunt quickly due to the smacking of the edges against other things.
So in theory...if you really carefully, ever so gently laid your plane down on the blade...on a purely wooden surface then the wrapping over of the edge should be minimal. However, slammed down with little or no thought to the edge will put it at greater risk.
Bottom line, if you're roughing stock its not going to matter much. If you're block planing hardwood end grain on a decorative box....you want to minimise all risks to the edge...so why would you place it flat...when by placing on its side you take zero risk.
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I lay my planes on their side or on a strip of wood as a matter of habit. I do think it’s good practice, if you are on site or working on a bench with glue or pins on the surface you may damage the blade or sole, so why not do it and save your kit.
Peter
Peter
Thanks for the replies Bob and Peter, I must say I wasn't planning on stopping my practice of putting planes down on the side, or lifting the front, I was just wondering if it made a difference. I can see with your explanation Bob that leaving a plane resting on the blade will have some effect on the edge, particularly perhaps, if it's left for any length of time - and maybe I need to stop putting kitchen knives in the dishwasher!
I hear what you're saying about tacks and glue on the workbench Peter - I think you must have seen my bench!
I hear what you're saying about tacks and glue on the workbench Peter - I think you must have seen my bench!
dunbarhamlin
Established Member
I'm going to be belting that edge at speed into my workpiece, knots and all. Really can't see placing it flat on a wooden bench top is going to make a jot of difference to it. I'd rather keep my work surface clear than risk losing small components so placing it on loose metal shards isn't going to happen. I hate sliced knuckles so never place on its side. Just seems an unnecessary hazard.
DTTech
Established Member
I always lay on the side, for the reasons mentioned above. I always teach the kids to lay it on the side also but using a plane at school seems to be pretty rare these days.
I also repeatadly tell the kid to lay the safety gogles on their backs aswell - hopefully it'll sink in eventually
I also repeatadly tell the kid to lay the safety gogles on their backs aswell - hopefully it'll sink in eventually
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
yeah..Its a funny old rule I must say. I read Leonard Lee's (from Lee Valley/Veritas) seminal book on sharpening some while back amd I recall he had electron micrograph pictures of various edges after sharpening and after various calamities had happened to them. The take away from that classic book for me was that...edges are in fact quite sensitive...so I've always just gone with the old rule of parking it on its side. It's like Peter said....why take the risk (skinned knuckles aside...not happened to me yet)
Graham Orm
Established Member
It all depends on how much effort and pride you put into sharpening your tools. Once I've had a sharpening session and I am happy with the results I am reluctant to do anything that might damage the edge. If you sharpen it once every 6 months then put it down on whatever you want however you want. If you sharpen it regularly then look after it.
bugbear
Established Member
Pete Maddex":12ak46x5 said:
Agreed. This was Jim Kingshott's advice, and his plane storage had a lath installed for this.
Or (when working) on a handful of shavings works too.
BugBear
woodbrains
Established Member
Hello,
The common thing taught in schools ( when woodwork was actually taught!) was.to lay the plane down on it's side. This is pretty much ingrained in everybody's consciousness, that it is rarely questioned. It might seem like a small thing ( in the scheme of things, it is) but I think this notion is wrong.
Firstly, your bench should be kept clean of anything that will ruin your work. You do not want to spend time making something, only to have to repair it because of a big scar caused by a foreign body. If you use your bench for non-woodworking things, use a sacrificial top. Once we have the (idealistic?) situation of the clear bench, putting a plane down on its sole is the safest for it. You will not dull the blade resting it on a wooden bench top, nor harm the sole but on its side, it is very easy to run into the exposed blade or bash the sole with another tool, another plane in use is the likely candidate. It might not happen often, but when it does, it is better to bump the side of the plane than the bit that matters.. Putting the plane sole down on a stick or two is fine, I suppose, but I don' see a benefit and it only causes bench clutter. Storing them that way in the tool cupboard is good, though, as it keeps the sole off potentially damp dust etc. and keeps some airflow, which helps stop corrosion.
Mike.
The common thing taught in schools ( when woodwork was actually taught!) was.to lay the plane down on it's side. This is pretty much ingrained in everybody's consciousness, that it is rarely questioned. It might seem like a small thing ( in the scheme of things, it is) but I think this notion is wrong.
Firstly, your bench should be kept clean of anything that will ruin your work. You do not want to spend time making something, only to have to repair it because of a big scar caused by a foreign body. If you use your bench for non-woodworking things, use a sacrificial top. Once we have the (idealistic?) situation of the clear bench, putting a plane down on its sole is the safest for it. You will not dull the blade resting it on a wooden bench top, nor harm the sole but on its side, it is very easy to run into the exposed blade or bash the sole with another tool, another plane in use is the likely candidate. It might not happen often, but when it does, it is better to bump the side of the plane than the bit that matters.. Putting the plane sole down on a stick or two is fine, I suppose, but I don' see a benefit and it only causes bench clutter. Storing them that way in the tool cupboard is good, though, as it keeps the sole off potentially damp dust etc. and keeps some airflow, which helps stop corrosion.
Mike.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
This was taught years ago, by people who were brought up to use wooden planes - I wonder what the reason then, but I can't think of anything different.
Scouse
Established Member
woodbrains":ihcr9h86 said:
That's what I was taught, and the same reason 30 years ago. So now they all just get put on the bench sole down, blade exposed, never an issue.
I do recall (but can't find) Christopher Schwarz posting a blog article arriving at the same conclusion; after a bit of research I think his reasoning was that back in the mists of time, school woodwork shops in the US were trying to avoid damage to blades and soles on untidy benches, so they had it drilled into them to put the plane on its side.
riclepp
Established Member
I always understood that to lay the plane on its side was taught to school children so that they don't bury the plane iron into the work bench. I must be honest I don't like clutter on my bench in any way shape or form (OCD :roll: :roll: ) and put the plane away when done. But if they expected rule is to lay then plane on its side, then what do people do when they put them away?
Do you just put it in a cupboard on the face with iron still out??? or do you lay it on it's side, or retract the iron and then place in the cupboard. With retracting the plane iron, would this not also cause some dulling of the sharp edge???
Personally, I would have thought that any cabinetmaker would be sharpining his sharp edges on any cutting tool on a regular basis depending on the material it is being used on, some woods bulnt sharp tools just by looking at it. I can understand when working in places with others you will take extra care with the sharp tools, but when working on your own would'nt that reduce sharp tools from being damaged.
So in reality is it not a case of each to their own???? I do things others frown on, but they work for me.
Do you just put it in a cupboard on the face with iron still out??? or do you lay it on it's side, or retract the iron and then place in the cupboard. With retracting the plane iron, would this not also cause some dulling of the sharp edge???
Personally, I would have thought that any cabinetmaker would be sharpining his sharp edges on any cutting tool on a regular basis depending on the material it is being used on, some woods bulnt sharp tools just by looking at it. I can understand when working in places with others you will take extra care with the sharp tools, but when working on your own would'nt that reduce sharp tools from being damaged.
So in reality is it not a case of each to their own???? I do things others frown on, but they work for me.
longinthetooth
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A woodworking area by default should be dry, and clean of grit and metal detritus - so can't be harmful. Always keep glasscutting and metalwork operations away from the woodwork bench or stuff will embed in its surface. So - no problem.
This is one of those myths that was propagated along with things like setting work in the vice with the saw line vertical - as if this would help an accurate cut. Cutting to a line is a matter for hand and eye - gravity is only an assistant, not the master!
This is one of those myths that was propagated along with things like setting work in the vice with the saw line vertical - as if this would help an accurate cut. Cutting to a line is a matter for hand and eye - gravity is only an assistant, not the master!
DTTech
Established Member
longinthetooth":1wf9fge7 said:
I see your point but cutting vertical is generally the easiest, the more you angle the blade the more difficult it becomes because you are making it all the more difficult to co-ordinate the hand with what the eye can see. Standing above/behind the saw gives the best vantage point. If its simple enough to hold in vice vertically then why make things more difficult.
Back on subject though. I suppose if one was really particular about this they would have a suitable plane rest that the plane can be stored on and also taken from the cpboard and placed on the bench with the plane :idea:
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
I don't think that last one is myth - I think people have some sort of innate sense of what is vertical. I know I find it more accurate, but I doubt gravity affects much.
bugbear
Established Member
phil.p":34eqjzup said:
Yeah - I can't judge 7 degrees (or whatever) worth a damn, but horizontal and vertical are hardwired into the visual cortex.
BugBear
It figures that this practice would come from schools where the brats.. sorry, children... are much more likely to do damage to the blades on untidy benches than a careful woodworker who puts the plane down carefully on a clean bench. It's at school, of course, where I learnt to never put the blade flat on the bench - we were taught to place the plane in the tool well facing upwards (if you see what I mean) so the blade didn't touch.
Thinking about it, I can see how it might have had more of an effect with a wooden plane where bits from the bench could get stuck into the wooden sole and maybe even having a wooden plane on a wooden surface may have effected moisture content and cause flatness issues (that's a long shot guess!). As dunbarhamlin said earlier though - the edge is going to be effected by a tiny tiny amount compared to ramming it up against a hardwood knot in use.
Thinking about it, I can see how it might have had more of an effect with a wooden plane where bits from the bench could get stuck into the wooden sole and maybe even having a wooden plane on a wooden surface may have effected moisture content and cause flatness issues (that's a long shot guess!). As dunbarhamlin said earlier though - the edge is going to be effected by a tiny tiny amount compared to ramming it up against a hardwood knot in use.
I've long thought that this idea must have originated from working on site. Putting your plane, blade down on a wooden bench top probably won't make any difference, but on a stone floor? If you ever work away from the bench, it may be a good habit to get into for just this reason.
Similarly, do we all place our chisels bevel downwards?
Similarly, do we all place our chisels bevel downwards?
