Profitable craft items?

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Rorschach

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What do you consider profitable craft items that someone can make a living (or at least a modest income) from making? I have been thinking about this since seeing the endangered crafts threads a couple of weeks ago.

To me it seems there are very few items out there at the moment that are actually cost effective to make, some of which only being so if you already have a lot of tooling and space. Artisan knives spring to mind as being one, the market is competitive but fairly healthy at the moment, artisan leather goods is probably another but I am not sure on the economics of this as a full time job. There is a good bit of tooling required though for efficient production of knives, same goes for setting up a furniture workshop which the associated troubles have been discussed here at length.

Interested to hear thoughts on this area, especially if anyone has any thoughts on gaps in the market, again related to the endangered crafts mentioned before.
 
It's an interesting question, I think. Over the past couple of days I've been exposed to both ends of the craft market - today I went to a museum of Welsh life where i was looking at mass-produced Welsh love spoons and wooden key rings (both of which refer to craft traditions), and at the other I had visits from a couple of past ceramics students who are making good names for themselves in the craft/ art world.

I looked at the key rings/ spoons and wondered what the margins are. With a good outlet like the Museum of Welsh Life, I guess they sell well enough and there's profit for the maker - they cost about £10 each and I can only imagine took very little time/ costs to make. (I remember seeing one student who had a sheet of love spoons being cut by cnc and wondered where the 'love' was, but figure no-one bothered.) Nobody really cares who made them, if the wood's from Wales, or even if they're made in Wales, any of that.

At the other end, both the ex-students are incredibly skilled ceramicists, who in addition to making invest a lot of time in promoting their work and getting people interested in their work. And it is interesting. Handmade pottery/ ceramics in this country is nothing like it used to be in the 70s/ 80s, but if you have something special there's still a market.

To conclude my rambling, I'd say maybe there's little room for making a profit from the middle ground between these two craft positions - mass produced 'by hand'; and one-off items that are really special, and that the customer knows is really special.
 
My friend's late wife was a properly trained potter (Leach Studio, St.Ives) and my friend told me she reckoned that you could count on your fingers the number of full time potters in this Country making a living out of it without other income.
 
phil.p":ledd62yq said:
My friend's late wife was a properly trained potter (Leach Studio, St.Ives)
Yep, you get a better provenance than that.

edit - CAN'T get a better provenance than that!
 
We recently went to a fair with a friend and at that fair there was a stand where they were selling kitchen chopping boards.

Our friend picked up an 18" x 12" oak board, router round the outside edge. A 1" hole in the top corner, sanded and finished.

The price was £60 !!

Our jaws dropped at which point the trader said they would do it for £40. Before I could say anything our friend said she would give £35. And she bought a piece of scrap oak for £35 !!

So on this basis, kitchen chopping boards are your solution. As long as there are enough people out there stupid enough to buy them at that price. And the only way to
find out if this is correct is to get out and do it. And I would guess there are many people on this forum that have given it a try that are far more experienced than me to provide the answer.
 
And there's more.

A few years ago I went on a one-to-one woodturning course with a very good turner who had opinions.

I think it was the last day when we were starting to wind down that I asked him a question, in the same vein as you're asking. And the question was on the
lines of "Is there money to be made out of woodturning?".

Well, light fuse and run!

"The problem with woodturning" he replied "is that I bust my guts preparing a whole pile of stock for a show. Then a b**t**d like you turns up with your cheap amateur s**t simply
because you want to clear your shed and start again!".

He had a point.
 
Regarding the woodturner story. This is the double whammy of turning a fun hobby into a money making job. What's fun to dabble in can be laborious to do full time. But pricewise, noone will pay what your time is worth because you are competing with the hobbyists who are still having fun and don't need to make money.

I was turning greenwood chair parts at a Cambridgeshire apple day, and a lady asked if my chairs were for sale. I said no, because the work involved means I can't make them for a price most people are willing to pay. She commented that she understood, people wouldn't want to pay, say £100, for a chair. For a chair which has ~£20 of seagrass in the seat, a 1m log of ash, and between 2 days and a week's work, no chance for £100. Best she go back to Ikea.
 
Sheffield Tony":2b5a2y9b said:
you are competing with the hobbyists who are still having fun and don't need to make money.

If you look hard enough at the designer/maker furniture market you see that you're also competing with professionals who don't need to make money, or at least not much money.

Having talked to lots of furniture makers it's astonishing how many have a supportive partner with a "proper" job, took very early retirement from the military or police, made a packet in the City and chucked it in for a simpler life, do IT consultancy for a day or two a week which pays the bills, or were just lucky enough to buy property in the right place during the late 80's crash. Once you filter out those makers you really aren't left with very many at all!
 
Geoff_S":2klqfqip said:
We recently went to a fair with a friend and at that fair there was a stand where they were selling kitchen chopping boards.

Our friend picked up an 18" x 12" oak board, router round the outside edge. A 1" hole in the top corner, sanded and finished.

The price was £60 !!

Our jaws dropped at which point the trader said they would do it for £40. Before I could say anything our friend said she would give £35. And she bought a piece of scrap oak for £35 !!

So on this basis, kitchen chopping boards are your solution. As long as there are enough people out there stupid enough to buy them at that price. And the only way to
find out if this is correct is to get out and do it. And I would guess there are many people on this forum that have given it a try that are far more experienced than me to provide the answer.

But she didn't, she bought a chopping board for a price that she was prepared to pay. She was happy, the trader was happy. It was only a scrap piece of wood in your eyes.
 
marcros":2s8c21tn said:
Geoff_S":2s8c21tn said:
We recently went to a fair with a friend and at that fair there was a stand where they were selling kitchen chopping boards.

Our friend picked up an 18" x 12" oak board, router round the outside edge. A 1" hole in the top corner, sanded and finished.

The price was £60 !!

Our jaws dropped at which point the trader said they would do it for £40. Before I could say anything our friend said she would give £35. And she bought a piece of scrap oak for £35 !!

So on this basis, kitchen chopping boards are your solution. As long as there are enough people out there stupid enough to buy them at that price. And the only way to
find out if this is correct is to get out and do it. And I would guess there are many people on this forum that have given it a try that are far more experienced than me to provide the answer.

But she didn't, she bought a chopping board for a price that she was prepared to pay. She was happy, the trader was happy. It was only a scrap piece of wood in your eyes.

And that is the going rate in, for instance, John Lewis. You get the extra added value of being able to meet and chat to the person that made the item.

There is tremendous value added from a personal connection to producing the item. Many crafters undersell this aspect of their items. They often just display the item and I sometimes assume that it was just imported wholesale, and they are a retail outfit rather than a maker.

Showing the process from tree to item, in photos, or by showing intermediate steps (like the ring turning that Jacob posted) would also add value and interest. The final piece of added value is if you can show the provenance of the wood. A particular tree from a local village adds to the story you are selling.
 
A customer is always comparing you to the competition, and for most craft items there are manufactured equivalents. You will always be more expensive than those, so the customer is asking (unconsciously) what they are getting for the premium.

Part of that is "individual, hand made". For the breadboard, the customer thought it was worth around £25. I'm guessing a manufactured chair equivalent might be £60, so "hand made" is not enough alone to justify the premium.

This usually means you need something more for the premium. No manufactured equivalent is good. So is made to measure/fit. The maker's reputation can be worth a lot - top name guitar makers get maybe 8x the price of a near-equivalent from an unknown make. And so on.

If what you make doesn't have any of these it will be hard to be genuinely profitable.
 
They don't really exist for all the reasons articulated above.

The £35 chopping board from scrap wood may be profitable but you still need to sell 10 or 12 a week to make even a minimum wage. If you sell through local craft or gift shops you need to sell 15-25 to allow them to make a profit.

And what was once a fun hobby will rapidly turn into a small business which may be somewhat less fun - worrying about economic sourcing of materials, marketing and promotion, running a van, keeping books for HMRC, ensuring appropriate insurances, contracts and collecting cash from distributors, buying better equipment to reduce manufacturing cost/time (saws, planers, CNC routers, spray booth etc)

Sorry to be so negative ..........
 
You would need to do extensive market research, so don't rely on this to replace that.

Instead of thinking about "craft" items, you could use those same skills to produce batches of niche items. There are many gentleman woodworkers about that would happily spend good money on premium tools. There are plenty of people who do not wish to make such tools/items.

Take these as an example: https://www.vespertools.com.au/marking-knives/
or shooting boards http://www.evenfallstudios.com/toolwork ... ooter.html

upgrades for existing items http://www.elkheadtools.com/saw_handles.html with potential to sell through the same vendors.
 
Couple of observations.

1) Pro/am: I am / was a photographer. In the space of a few months, the business I'd spent years building up collapsed because of amateurs with financially supportive partners/generous pension/ regular income muscling in to make a little extra on the side. I've not forgotten what it was like to be a hobbyist and the thrill of someone actually liking your work enough to pay for it and when I was young it was a profitable sideline to my regular job. I was under no illusions though, I was getting the clients who couldn't afford the prices charged by our town's full time pros. One of them was ex-army, organised wedding group shots like he was still drilling squaddies on a parade ground but he was unquestionably a brilliant photographer. Neither he nor our other established pro considered me a threat as my pocket money customers were of no interest to them. Perhaps through necessity, I'm a firm believer in the adage that states many a mickle maks a muckle!

2) Valuation: When getting into woodwork, the boss drew my attention to something that was essentially three small pieces of wood knocked together at an eye-watering price. It became my first project. To be honest, for all its simplicity, the final result was rough as a bear's bum but she loved its "rustic" quality and continues to use it on a near daily basis. Her parents liked it too so I was 'commissioned' to make one for them too. That one was better because I'd learnt a bit from the first one although three years on there's still no hint of the "We'll pay for your time and materials". Then the sister wanted one, again with the offer of payment for materials. The brother-in-law runs a construction company so I suggested rather than payment perhaps we could swop for a piece of plexiglass. Apparently this was an outrageous suggestion and what I received instead was a pack of beer, the cost of which didn't even cover the price of the board of wood used. That put me off making things for others and I never did drink the beer, served it up to him next time they visited with one arm as long as the other.

On the flipside, my neighbours have a little girl and we usually buy her a small gift for birthdays, xmas etc. I was looking for something suitable for this xmas, I had an idea in mind but couldn't find anything that came close and what was out there looked cheap while being hellish expensive so I decided to make something. Not sure labour of love covers the process exactly, perhaps a bit more Magnus Magnusson ("I've started so I'll finish!"). Some aspects of it worked out well, some not as well as I'd hoped and it was touch and go as to whether or not I'd give it to them or if the mkii version would join the prototype in the kindling box. The boss said to give it and I'm glad now I did it. Late on Christmas night I received a very nice thank you note from the child's mother, saying the girl loved it and they were blown away by the thought and effort that went into making it. They're back now and the mum collared me in the workshop again yesterday to reiterate the thanks, the little girl full of teethy smiles. When asked if it had taken long to produce I had to admit that it had. Wouldn't have done if I was a better woodworker, had a plan to work to instead of making it up as I went along and no doubt if I was to do another it would be quicker and better because of lessons learnt from first two. Quick enough to make one for a sensible price? Probably not but to me their reaction to it is priceless.
 
Rorschach":1c0pe7my said:
What do you consider profitable craft items that someone can make a living (or at least a modest income) from making? I have been thinking about this since seeing the endangered crafts threads a couple of weeks ago.

To me it seems there are very few items out there at the moment that are actually cost effective to make, some of which only being so if you already have a lot of tooling and space. Artisan knives spring to mind as being one, the market is competitive but fairly healthy at the moment, artisan leather goods is probably another but I am not sure on the economics of this as a full time job. There is a good bit of tooling required though for efficient production of knives, same goes for setting up a furniture workshop which the associated troubles have been discussed here at length.

Interested to hear thoughts on this area, especially if anyone has any thoughts on gaps in the market, again related to the endangered crafts mentioned before.

I passed on the info about the endangered crafts prize to a someone I know who does chair caning - she’d better buy me a pint if she wins!
I’ll take a rough stab at some of the reasons she’s doing OK -
Low overheads - cheap part of the country (top of the Pennines), lives above her workshop, not much expensive equipment.
Niche product.
Passing trade - quite a few tourists (in the summer anyway, not quite so many when the sleet’s coming down sideways off Cross Fell!).

That aside, as a woodworker you’re doing pretty well if you can break even on tools and materials.
 
marcros":2qia8sl6 said:
Instead of thinking about "craft" items, you could use those same skills to produce batches of niche items. There are many gentleman woodworkers about that would happily spend good money on premium tools. There are plenty of people who do not wish to make such tools/items.

Take these as an example: ............ http://www.evenfallstudios.com/toolwork ... ooter.html
Thanks marcros, I actually laughed out loud at the 'rasping fixture' on that site for $125, I think I've got one of those in my scrap box. :lol:
Maybe the problem is, enthusiasts of good woodworking wouldn't dream of asking a decent amount of money for something they don't regard as worthy.
I've recently been looking at facebook; there seem to be plenty of people up and down the country making money selling nailed together bits of pallet wood that look as rough as a badger's ar$e.
The answer could be to just lower standards and bang out quickly made gear from cheap as possible wood.
Pallet wood and old scaffolding boards are what's commonly used, bath boards, wine butlers etc. are the sort of thing that's turned out, barely any joinery.
Waney edge boards with 'hairpin legs' screwed on seem to be very popular too, as benches and tables.
 
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