Pre-project musing. Disguising door frames.

[woof]

Hello All,
Advice required if possible and be gentle! Still a newbie here but very much inspired by you folks on here. One day I ought to post up my projects to date (TV/cinema stand; oak bathroom boxing) but now I am thinking about progressing with the next project - internal oak doors (rough sawnamerican white has been acclimatising indoors since June so should be ready - as soon as I am!

So heres the thing. I now am thinking the door frames (currently white painted on what I guess is some softwood) should be natural oak too to match the doors. But surely I don't need to rip all the frames out and replace with oak? What I was thinking would work would be to replace the "mouldings" (the part that protrudes into rooms) with oak that I can run across the router table. But what of the "face" of the frame itself (the part that faces across the doorway) - one thought I had is to cut thin oak and glue - in a veneer type way? But perhaps a little thicker than veneer - 5mm? However, never having done any veneer I have no idea if (i) it is feesible or (II) would look awful. Maybe there is a better way at doing this and am hoping someone out there will have some suggestions?! Hopefully this post makes sense as I must apoloise for not knowing the technical terms.

Many thanks in advance,

Mark

 

[miles_hot]

unless the removal of the architrave etc will cause widespread destruction to the surrounding decoration I would have thought that any veneering / overlay etc would take a lot more effort than replacing it with oak (which looks fantastic by the way). If there are any issues around things like wall paper I would make the architrave slightly wider than the current one.

Hope this helps.

Miles

 

[jasonB]

I would also take the old door linings out.

To "face" the lining with oak you would need something like 7-8mm allowing fror the architraves to be set back 6mm from the edge to hide the joint. This will then give you the problem of having to trim 8mm of each side of any doors to get them to fit.

Unless you also make the doors yourself you will be removing the lipping on most pre made doors if you take this much off.

Jason

 

[MikeG.]

Pete,

it depends on your house.............age, construction technique etc, but it can look fantastic to have doors hung within posts and a beam, rather than within linings. 5"x5" posts and beam, stop chamfered on the side away from the door, look great in a cottage, farmhouse or older "period" property.

Whatever you do, you will be pulling those linings out..........

Mike

 

[woof]

Hmmm not what I expected - but seems new door linings it is then! Lucky I have a p/t. I love the idea of 5" sq beams but dont think it quite fits the character of the house (much as I would like it to). So about the "linings" (= frame - yes?) - what would you recommend - have seen 25mm or 32 mm suggested on web. Then I guess the architrave can be made wide enough to overhang the side of the frame and extend a little to cover the damage I am going to inflict on the wall :lol:

THanks, Mark

 

[MikeG.]

Linings should ideally be ex 32mm.

Oak architraves can look really good in quite plain mouldings, (say, just a pencil-round).......again, depends upon the look of the rest of the house.

Mike

 

[Mattty]

Linings should ideally be ex 32mm.

Oak architraves can look really good in quite plain mouldings, (say, just a pencil-round).......again, depends upon the look of the rest of the house.

Mike

This is a good starting point, however it depends if your rebating the solid wood or fixing stop lats. Its unlikely that a 32mm solid frame + stop lats would fit in the existing masonry opening thus potentially more work cutting back brickwork.

The starting point for me would be to measure the masonry or studwork opening, deduct from that dimension the width of the door and the remainder will be the thickness of the two jambs.

Eg-
Masonry opening- 890mm
Door width- 838mm
52mm remainder= 26mm jambs maximum.

These would work nicely with 32mm stock rebated to 10mm deep. Or ex 25mm stock and an applied stop lat. If the lining finishes slack to the opening it is easily packed plumb and level.

Normally i would make a door lining slack by 10mm and pack this out rather than tight and have to cut the lining down or even worse plane the door to fit an out of plumb frame.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[MikeG.]

All good sense Matty, and normally the way to go..........however, Mark is making his own doors, so they can be whatever size he likes.

Mike

 

[Mattty]

All good sense Matty, and normally the way to go..........however, Mark is making his own doors, so they can be whatever size he likes.

Mike

I Read it as he'd already made them and now wanted new linings

I'll get my coat...

 

[woof]

Indeed I am planning to make my own doors so hopefully should make things a little easier.

Not sure I fully understand though so far about rebates.

Matty when you say

these would work nicely with 32mm stock rebated to 10mm deep. Or ex 25mm stock and an applied stop lat. If the lining finishes slack to the opening it is easily packed plumb and level

what exactly do you mean?
From looking at the web and my "Readers Digest DIY_ :shock: no sniggering at the back - I thought the frame/jambs/lining were essentially 3 planks of wood, with a trench or rebate in the top to take the vertical boards at the top of the frame. Then the stop and architrave (?) are then applied on top of this. Are you thinking that instead of adding the stop, you cut a rebate both sides to leave the stop in the middle - with no no nails/screws showing as it is integral? If thats what you mean, sounds very nice. In your experience do costs work out approx same this way by buying a thicker piece of wood or two thinner pieces (jamb and stop separately)? Apologies if I have totally misunderstood.

 

[jasonB]

I would say that 99% of internal doors have a flat lining with an applied stop and most of those are from ex 32mm stock giving a finished thiskness of 25mm, the stops will be approx 12mm finish or 25mm if fire doors.

External doors frames tend to be one piece with a rebate for the door rather than an applied stop.

Jason

 

[Mattty]

Indeed I am planning to make my own doors so hopefully should make things a little easier.

Not sure I fully understand though so far about rebates.

Matty when you say

these would work nicely with 32mm stock rebated to 10mm deep. Or ex 25mm stock and an applied stop lat. If the lining finishes slack to the opening it is easily packed plumb and level

what exactly do you mean?
From looking at the web and my "Readers Digest DIY_ :shock: no sniggering at the back - I thought the frame/jambs/lining were essentially 3 planks of wood, with a trench or rebate in the top to take the vertical boards at the top of the frame. Then the stop and architrave (?) are then applied on top of this. Are you thinking that instead of adding the stop, you cut a rebate both sides to leave the stop in the middle - with no no nails/screws showing as it is integral? If thats what you mean, sounds very nice. In your experience do costs work out approx same this way by buying a thicker piece of wood or two thinner pieces (jamb and stop separately)? Apologies if I have totally misunderstood.

Ok. We'll start at the begining.

Joinery traditionally was very vernacular and like everything has become more standardised.

Door frames are generally 4 sided and have a cill or threshold and tend to be for external use. Generally they are made from thicker stock and are rebated on the head and jambs.

Door linings are 3 sided and generally used internally and more usually have an applied stop bead instead of a rebate. The stop is applied to the head AND the jambs. However rebated linings are very common also, they are made of thicker stock and have a rebate instead of the stop lats.

I'm not sure of your readers digest book but that frame does sound unusual though perfectly feasible.

When making a door frame or lining i would look to make it at least 10mm narrower than the opening. There is never any certainty of the masonry opening being plumb or parallel. This 10mm would enable you to pack of the new frame with wooden shims to get it perfectly straight and thus making hanging the door far easier.

Costs wise. A solid rebated frame and a 'loose lat' frame is probably very similar. Asthetically- I personally prefer both frames and lining to be rebated. But there isn't much difference tbh.

I hope this helps, if not shout up!

 

[woof]

Matty - excellent. Crystal clear explanation, much appreciated. Many thanks, Mark

 

[Derek Willis.]

Don't mess with odd sizes of door linings, make them all to fit the doors, I once went to a site where someone had fitted all the linings, he had adjusted the standard linings to fit the openings, you never saw such an abortionate mess in your life, I refused to fit any door, and took out all the linings and re-fitted new ones by adjusting the openings to fit.
Derek.

 

[neilyweely]

derek ;

Don't mess with odd sizes of door linings, make them all to fit the doors, I once went to a site where someone had fitted all the linings, he had adjusted the standard linings to fit the openings, you never saw such an abortionate mess in your life, I refused to fit any door, and took out all the linings and re-fitted new ones by adjusting the openings to fit.
Derek.

Amen!

(25"? 26.5"? 33.5"? - I HAD to fit 'em all!)

 

[Derek Willis.]

I guess that was your problem, not mine.
Derek.

 

[Derek Willis.]

I'm sure you'll enjoy all you have to do with regard to this project, good luck!!!
Derek.