Portable/bench top thicknesser - which one?

[sploo]

I'm after a thicknesser, but with no experience in this area, I'm feeling somewhat under-equipped in my ability to make a good choice.

I definitely want a portable/bench top style (no space for a bigger machine), and I'm not bothered about a jointer (US nomenclature - not sure of the UK wording) so definitely no need for a combination machine.

Loads would only be hobbyist level, but I would like to be able to plane things such as end grain chopping boards made from walnut, maple, sycamore etc.

I'd rather have a machine that produces good results for ~1mm passes, rather than the ability to chomp through thicker cuts (but with inferior results). Most machines in this sort of range seem to have ~300mm cutting width (fine) and will take stock up to ~150mm thick (also fine). Are there generally limits to how thin stock can be (both width and height) before they're too small to be safely planed?

It seems as though there's a class of machine such as the Jet JPW-12 and Triton TPT125 (sub £300) and then a set such as the Makita 2012NB and Dewalt DW733 (sub £500). Finally, there's the Axminster CT330 at over £600.

As far as I can make out, these machines all seem to have 2 knives and a single fixed feed speed. There's a Dewalt DW734 and 735 that have 3 knives, with the latter having a choice of speed, but they look to be US market only.

So - for hobbyist use on hard woods, is it worth looking at one of the more expensive machines, and how crucial is it to have 3 knives and/or a choice of a lower feed rate?

 

[marcros]

Forget levelling end grain chopping boards. To successfully do those you need to cut accurately (to reduce the difference in the level, and either use a block plane, use a hand held sander of some form or put it through a drum sander.

I have the ct330 which is brilliant. I didn't know it had crept up to that value now. I have also got a planer thicknesser but I tend to still use the ct330 for thicknessing. It only has one speed but I have not found it a limitation. I couldn't tell you how it compares with the other models that you have mentioned. The 2 blades give a good finish but I would expect to do something else- sand, smooth or scrape afterwards in any case. It is quite noisy but I don't do regular long sessions of thicknessing so I put up with that!

 

[Fromey]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Makita 2012NB purchase. From my research (but no personal experience) it looks like the sweet spot as far as value for money.

 

[sploo]

marcros/Fromey - thanks for the input.

A guy called mtmwood (seach on YouTube - I can't post a link) does some great end grain boards, with videos showing techniques of how to safely do them in the thicknesser. In fact, he used to have a 2012NB before moving onto a bigger unit (a 20" Jet, IRC).

From what I've been able to work out so far; the Dewalt DW735X is probably the best in the price range, but it's not available in the UK (only the DW733). Interestingly it rates well in tests, but has a lot of negative feedback on some retailer's sites. The Makita 2012NB gets criticised for being a bit weak for wide boards, but tends to get mostly positive buyer feedback. There do seem to be enough questions about the Dewalt build quality that I'm leaning away from them.

I'm scratching my head as to why the Axminster CT330 is ~£200 more expensive than the best prices I can get for the Makita (or the Dewalt DW733), but from video reviews it does look quite good. I found one moderately negative review on a woodworking magazine website (problems with snipe), but I think most of the criticism was due to high expectations because of the price.

To be fair to Axminster, I spoke to them about the Jet JWP-12 they also sell (half the price of the CT330) and the guy said they'd had good feedback on them.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

marcros/Fromey - thanks for the input.

A guy called mtmwood (seach on YouTube - I can't post a link) does some great end grain boards, with videos showing techniques of how to safely do them in the thicknesser. In fact, he used to have a 2012NB before moving onto a bigger unit (a 20" Jet, IRC).

Her you go

End grain through the planer: the safety

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs

Making a "Butterfly" 3D end grain cutting board

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gliOZyHkdps

 

[shed9]

If your core requirement is finishing end grain boards a drum sander is the tool for the job. Safer, better results and wider capabilities.

 

[marcros]

marcros/Fromey - thanks for the input.

A guy called mtmwood (seach on YouTube - I can't post a link) does some great end grain boards, with videos showing techniques of how to safely do them in the thicknesser. In fact, he used to have a 2012NB before moving onto a bigger unit (a 20" Jet, IRC).

Her you go

End grain through the planer: the safety

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs

Making a "Butterfly" 3D end grain cutting board

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gliOZyHkdps

Ok, it seems that it is possible but first point to note is the helical head on the machine in the first video.

 

[marcros]

If your core requirement is finishing end grain boards a drum sander is the tool for the job. Safer, better results and wider capabilities.

And if you were to make one it would be much cheaper. The plans that I have seen use about 30 quids worth of timber, some bearings and a shaft and a small motor.

http://woodgears.ca/sander/plans/index.html

 

[sploo]

End grain through the planer: the safety

Thanks - that's the one (guess new guys can't post links).

Ok, it seems that it is possible but first point to note is the helical head on the machine in the first video.

That's a good point; though I'd forgotten that in the video linked above he shows the use of the Makita which doesn't have a helical head. Granted I think he's pointing to 0.25mm cut depth max, but it appears feasible.

If your core requirement is finishing end grain boards a drum sander is the tool for the job. Safer, better results and wider capabilities.

And if you were to make one it would be much cheaper. The plans that I have seen use about 30 quids worth of timber, some bearings and a shaft and a small motor.

http://woodgears.ca/sander/plans/index.html

Funnily enough, I was looking at that before the planer. I have a couple of old motors in the garage that might be suitable. I couldn't work out from the plans how the sandpaper was actually attached to the drum. He mentions "hook side of velcro", and "velcro and paper", so I assume velcro is glued to the drum and then velcro backed paper goes on.

I do wonder what the finish would be like though - you probably want a fairly low grit in order to be able to "thickness" parts, but then that runs the risk of a poor finish - or at least poorer than a planer.

I have the kit to cut all the parts to build one (CNC machine for the discs) but ironically I suspect it'd end up bigger than one of the portable planers (when folded for storage) and I'm really pushed for space in the garage, which is also a factor.

Of course, I could instead try to make a drum onto which I could attach a set of purchased planer knives, but that feels like a first class ticket to A&E :wink:

 

[sploo]

Just seen the video of Pat Hawley explaining his DIY sander. Yep - velco on the drum, and velcro backed paper wrapped round. 60/80/120 grit for "thicknessing" to "finishing". Doesn't look hard to change the paper I'll admit, but I do still wonder if the finish (for end grain or with grain) would be better with a thicknesser.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

marcros/Fromey - thanks for the input.

A guy called mtmwood (seach on YouTube - I can't post a link) does some great end grain boards, with videos showing techniques of how to safely do them in the thicknesser. In fact, he used to have a 2012NB before moving onto a bigger unit (a 20" Jet, IRC).

Her you go

End grain through the planer: the safety

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2LSj4RhAs

Making a "Butterfly" 3D end grain cutting board

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gliOZyHkdps

Ok, it seems that it is possible but first point to note is the helical head on the machine in the first video.

That isn't the first point really, since he used the makita for years before using the helical head.

You seem to sugest that the helical head on the machine is the factor that makes it possible, which it does not.

It clearly isn't something that should be done without great care, but equally it is something that can be done without big problems.

 

[sploo]

So, I got chance to check out the Jet JPW-12 and Axminster CT330 last night (not running, mostly just tyre kicking).

Certainly you can see the Jet is built to a price (outer "skin" much more flimsy), and the Axminster looks more substantial - much better tables too. To be fair, both raise and lower pretty smoothly (though the CT330 is a bit better, and has a cut depth gauge [i.e. what you're going to take off on the next cut]).

I'd found a review at woodworkersinstitute (I suspect I still can't post links) that was a bit negative of the CT330 (bad snipe, didn't meet rated cut depth). It hadn't fully dawned on me until I looked at it that it's rated at 1500W vs the Jet at 1800W. Now, I'm sure there's a world of difference between quality of motors, and manufacturers love to play with inflated numbers, but a 20% difference is quite substantial.

I couldn't immediately spot the anti-kickback fingers on the CT330, until I realised what the woodworkersinstitute review was talking about - they seem to be some flat sheets of metal that barely move, so I understand how they might exert unwanted downward pressure on the rear side of a board. The Jet had very standard moving fingers.

I haven't seen the Makita, Dewalt or Metabo DH330 in the flesh, but I'm assuming at least the Makita would be somewhere above the Jet in build quality. The mtmwood guy obviously got on ok with his one (though I think it doesn't have any anti-kickback). I'm tempted by the Metabo, as on paper it's got similar specs (max width) to the Axminster, is 1800W, and I can get it for nearly £300 less than the Axminster, which is cheaper even than the Makita. I'd just like to find a place that had one to look at (Oxfordshire/Berkshire area), but I've not found one yet.

 

[sploo]

After a bit more thinking, I've decided to gamble on the Metabo DH330. The Makita gets a great write up from owners, but having done a bit of searching, the Metabo seems to be rated highly on the continent (lots of use of Google Translate to help me read Serbian forums, amongst others :wink.

I like Makita gear, and don't know Metabo as a brand, but cheaper price, higher specs, and slightly lower feed rate swung it for me to the DH330. Not sure when I'll get time to try it (should be delivered next week) but I'll post back with my impressions.

 

[Mark A]

I've sent you a private mesage :wink:

 

[sploo]

Got it. Many thanks for the info (for other readers: it was some thoughts from someone that owns one; positive, but issues with the dust extraction).

I have a feeling they've done something like putting a ~63mm port on the extraction adaptor, which can also fit a 100mm pipe (so I'm guessing it might mean it's actually only 63mm). I'm sure I'll be able to hack together a replacement adaptor if required.

Although this page is very old, and there's been changes since, this is the extraction set up in my garage: http://spikyfish.com/DustExtraction/

I'd love to add a cyclone, but time & space and both lacking.

 

[Karl]

The Metabo is a great machine. I have one, and it has been in heavy use for nearly 4 years now. Still going strong, though the infeed roller now needs replacing (rubber worn away).

DX is absolutely atrocious (too little airflow), so I did away with the port which comes with it and mocked something up to take a 4" hose and does a much much better job.

Cheers

Karl

 

[sploo]

Thanks Karl - good to know it's going strong after years of use.

My thoughts so far:

Noise - not really a big deal. Obviously ear defenders are required, but if you're used to the high pitched scream of a router it's not an issue. I'd even say it was slightly better (lower pitched).

Dust extraction - as already mentioned by others; not great. The actual hole is in the 50-60mm diameter range. A high powered shop vac running through a cyclonic separator may fair well, but an impeller based extractor (low pressure/high volume) really struggles to pull air through the small gap. I understand that at low pressure, air doesn't compress well, so a restricted tube will just kill the air flow. It's not a show stopper, and I'm sure a DIY extractor port will improve matters.

Cut quality - generally good. I've so far used American black walnut, ash, sycamore, lime and a bit of pine. All have come out glossy smooth when cut with the grain. However, the infeed and outfeed tables are lower than the central bed, and the adjustment screws appear to only change the angle of the tables. As such it doesn't appear possible to get the tables completely flat with the central bed, and it's leading to pronounced snipe on shorter pieces of material (where the material has left the infeed roller before it touches the end of the outfeed table).

General build quality - Definitely better than the Jet machine I saw at Axminster. Probably lower than the Axminster machine (but it's £300 cheaper). No rollers on the tables or top, but Liberon Lubricating Wax works well on the tables and central bed.

Raising/lowering the height is good, and the locking lever is solid. The handle to change the height can be flipped over for storage, but I find it moves a bit when turning (annoying) so I'd like a way of locking it "up" in use.

The planing thickness indicator seems to be set incorrectly; that is, with an indicated thickness of 38.5mm it'll thickness material to 40mm. I haven't yet worked out if I can fix that, but it looks consistent(ly out by 1.5mm).

One annoyance is that the machine comes only with a European plug, and an (admittedly sturdy) adaptor cable to give you a 3-pin UK plug. The irony then is that the depth of cut indicator (showing what you'll take off on the next pass) has a needle that points to values in inches (EU vs UK etc.). There are mm measurements, but they're on the other side of the "display" and as such are on the side where the needle is "fat", which is a bit clunky.

Overall then I think it's OK. It was cheaper than anything other than the Jet, and the extraction and height indicator issues are things I can work around (or live with). The table issue is more annoying, but I guess when I'm working with smaller sections of wood I can possibly add sacrificial rails to the sides.

I can however see the value in a jointer; my wood supply often consists of turning blanks (e.g. 50x50x300mm blocks) and many aren't square across the 50x50mm cross section. I think I could probably make a sled to hold a piece by one side (at 90 degrees to the bed) and then plane the top square, but that's a project for another day.

 

[sploo]

I got some answers from Metabo:

• Depth of cut indicator display - no mm version, but I guess I could make one myself
• Planing thickness indicator being ~1.5mm off - bit of a limp answer to the effect of it not being micrometer calibrated ( :?: ), and there's no way to adjust the rule on the side. Not great. Not the end of the world, and I guess I could get one of these http://wixey.com/planer/index.html anyway
• Table adjustment only doing the angle - yep, no other adjustment. When I get chance to do the next cuts I'm going to add a small sled (sacrificial rails of cheap timber to prevent snipe on the important wood). Again not ideal, though I'm wondering how much of a problem it actually is (i.e. even if it were perfectly flat would that eliminate snipe on shorter pieces)

 

[marcros]

if you wanted to do so, you could probably fit a digital depth indicator- alas out of stock but http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/woodwork-m ... aners.html

 

[sploo]

if you wanted to do so, you could probably fit a digital depth indicator- alas out of stock but http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/woodwork-m ... aners.html

Yep, that's the Wixey one. I mailed them last night to see when it might be available :wink:

No examples of fit onto a DH330, but I'd take a close look at the machine vs. the gauge before buying.

TBH I do tend to be very cautious with the thicknesser. I'm not in a great hurry (not chucking loads of meters of board through it) so I tend to run a few passes until it just starts to plane, and then continue to drop it by tiny amounts (and occasionally check the material thickness with calipers). As such, an accurate gauge isn't critical for me, but it would be a nice luxury.