plumbing

[stuart little]

Can anyone throw any light on this one? Several of my neighbours have a problem with their water supply, all in semis with Worcester boilers so no tanks. They have hot & cold supply upstairs, but only hot in the kitchen & the heating's working. Housing Assoc. talking of next Wed. & Welsh h2o suggest a froze pipe?

 

[Doug B]

I’d imagine if this has just happened & affect all houses at the same time then it could be frozen pipes particularly if all the houses have been built to the same spec I’m guessing that as you say housing association.
Do you know where the stop taps are ? Usually the stop tap is under the sink but I’m guessing if there’s cold upstairs then the stop tap wont be under the sink.
I went to a lady yesterday who‘s cold supply to her combination boiler had frozen so she had no hot water But cold at all the cold taps

 

[stuart little]

I’d imagine if this has just happened & affect all houses at the same time then it could be frozen pipes particularly if all the houses have been built to the same spec I’m guessing that as you say housing association.
Do you know where the stop taps are ? Usually the stop tap is under the sink but I’m guessing if there’s cold upstairs then the stop tap wont be under the sink.
I went to a lady yesterday who‘s cold supply to her combination boiler had frozen so she had no hot water But cold at all the cold taps

The stop tap is in a 'walk-in' cupboard/utility room off the kitchen, but a bit reluctant to try as it is very stiff- possible corrosion build-up.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Upstairs cold water comes from the roof tank, all hot water depends upon there being water in that tank. If the incoming main is frozen soon (when the tank runs dry) they'll have no water at all.

 

[stuart little]

Upstairs cold water comes from the roof tank, all hot water depends upon there being water in that tank. If the incoming main is frozen soon (when the tank runs dry) they'll have no water at all.

Phil,
There are no tanks - removed when new Worcester boilers fitted.

 

[Pedronicus]

Where is the boiler in relation to the kitchen sink?

 

[stuart little]

Where is the boiler in relation to the kitchen sink?

It's in the airing cupboard off the landing.

 

[Pedronicus]

From the stopcock in the cupboard is there only one pipe rising upwards to above (serving the boiler and bathroom) or is there a branch after the s/c that runs to serve the kitchen tap? If the latter then that branch is frozen somewhere. If the former then a cold branch must drop down somewhere to feed the kitchen and that is frozen.

 

[stuart little]

From the stopcock in the cupboard is there only one pipe rising upwards to above (serving the boiler and bathroom) or is there a branch after the s/c that runs to serve the kitchen tap? If the latter then that branch is frozen somewhere. If the former then a cold branch must drop down somewhere to feed the kitchen and that is frozen.

Thanks, I'll go check.

 

[Spectric]

Look for where the cold for the downstairs is taken from the incoming supply because that is probably frozen, strange because you would have though it would have also cut of the upstairs if the cold downstairs was frozen so maybe an odd pipe layout.

 

[Linus]

Phil,
There are no tanks - removed when new Worcester boilers fitted.

Perhaps you are referring to hot water cylinders removed. Probably a direct cold feed to downstairs tap which is frozen, but a cold water tank on the roof which will feed all the others, which as Phil says will eventually run out. The boiler would also be supplied from the incoming main but may not be frozen.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Are the upstairs cold taps mains pressure?

 

[stuart little]

Are the upstairs cold taps mains pressure?

Yes.

 

[stuart little]

One pipe from s/t up to boiler where I reckon it branches to feed kitchen tap. It must go under the upstairs floor then thru. ceiling down to tap. Where the pipepasses thru the worktop it right by two airbricks, where no doubt the problem lies. Trouble is the pipe's in a cavity behind the cabinets - inaccessible without major dismantling!
I think why only a few houses affected is they're all the same layout, there are two or three diff. layouts on the site. Looks like the answer is to blow hot air thru airbricks then temporarily block them.
Thanks for your suggestions 'gang.'

 

[Spectric]

Why don't people think about protecting pipes during the installation, there seems to be some conception that because they are hidden then don't bother using pipe insulation. That was certainly the case in the house I live in where pipe insulation was scantilly used. Maybe because we are seeing milder temperatures but this cold snap has shown them the errors of their ways !

On cold / north facing walls I always use extra protection such as PIR board behing pipe run and extra thick walled Climaflex such as 19 or even 25mm rather than just 13mm.

 

[Pedronicus]

Why don't people think about protecting pipes during the installation, there seems to be some conception that because they are hidden then don't bother using pipe insulation. That was certainly the case in the house I live in where pipe insulation was scantilly used. Maybe because we are seeing milder temperatures but this cold snap has shown them the errors of their ways !

On cold / north facing walls I always use extra protection such as PIR board behing pipe run and extra thick walled Climaflex such as 19 or even 25mm rather than just 13mm.

We are talking about Housing Association properties here where the overriding factor in all things is cost.

Lagging will only delay the freezing not prevent it all together as it will eventually reach the surrounding air temperature. I have been to properties that have been fully lagged but heating turned off whilst occupiers away for an extended period only to return to find a sprinkler system had been installed!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Housing association properties going up around here have solar panels, heat pumps etc. that the rest of us can't afford - I doubt they skimp on the insulation now.

I'm surprised that insurance companies pay out for flood damage from uninsulated pipes. My friend put in claims in total some years ago for the better part of £40,000 for damage from a burst pipe in his attic when he was on holiday - he did not have one single pipe in the attic insulated and they paid without question. Totally preventable.

edit - I should have said he's a multi millionaire, it's not as if he couldn't afford he insulation.

 

[Spectric]

Totally preventable.

Maybe just the way things are today, people don't seem to look at anything as being long term and replace kitchens / bathrooms on a whim compared to when you maybe did it once and that was that and with seemingly lax insurance companies so you get a flood but a chance to update. The insurance companies are like a safety net that covers you, just the same as people who walk the fells without maps or the right gear simply because if it goes wrong then mountain rescue will save the day. It could also be because they have so much money that it is easier to pay out than dispute unless something obvious stands out or they have a track record of claims.

 

[pe2dave]

Hopefully not your issue. One (older) house had the cold water running up buried in the outside wall plaster! Guess what happened each cold spell.