Please help me fix my cold and damp workshop

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Triggaaar

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I have a cold and damp workshop that I'm after advice for please (damp being the main problem).

The structure:
The floor is damp proof and not insulated, and that's the way I want it to stay (I've levelled it and finished it nicely and will put bits of rubber down if I need to for comfort).
One wall is ply and adjoins a guest house, and is insulated (so we can ignore that wall).
The small front wall is largely a pair of FLBs (I’ll add some basic insulation).
The other two walls (the problem ones) are single skin brick parapet walls and they are wet through. It was built with brick because they are just an inch or 2 from boundary brick walls, so cannot be maintained (as wood would need).
The roof is uninsulated, sloping with a breathable membrane and fake slates on top (I will insulate it).

Damp Walls:
These 2 walls extend about 3 feet above the boundary brick wall. It is those 3 feet that are exposed to driving rain, which then trickles down the whole wall, and soaks into the very pourus bricks I have. I could fix the wet bricks with water based epoxy paint on the inside (the bricks would get wet, but the water wouldn’t come in). I could also add a tiny bit of insulation to these walls (I don’t have the space inside to do it properly). I am convinced that the main cause of damp is not condensation (as it would normally be) but rain soaking through this single skin brick (as it is a parapet wall it is high, and you can see the rain soak through it). I can’t easily fix the problem externally because the boundary wall is only an inch or two away. Mike Garnham’s first thought was that sealing the bricks was not a good idea, because once water is in the bricks and freezes, it will expand and break the bricks. I don’t know if this still applies if I’m only sealing the inside, allowing the outside to breath. I don’t know how else I could fix the problem, since my wall is too close to the boundary for me to add anything decent to the outside of the wall (except the top 3 feet).

Roof:
I have no eaves ventilation, as there are parapets on the 2 damp walls, a box gutter on the other main wall and for some reason I didn't make an overhang with a soffit for over the doors (I could create some ventilation by slashing the top of the felt, where it's protected under the ridge tiles (my architect has suggested that before)). I have 6 inch ceiling joists and rafters above so I’d like to use some space blanket insulation (200mm) that I already have (between the ceiling joists) and then put OSB underneath the joists to protect the insulation. But I need to sort out the main damp issues before I can install it.

Any advice much appreciated, thanks.
 
Why not just paint the damp walls with a bitumen paint on the inside line with a plastic damp membrane then insulate and board, with battens a suitable distance apart.

To assist the wet wall you could apply a silicon sealer on the outside such as Thomsons water seal.
 
I have had this problem on my units, driving rain soaking through 4" block.

My solution was to Hilti gorrugated tins onto the blockwork, with a drip rail at the bottom so that the water doesn't drip onto the last 12" of block that isn't covered.

If the boundary wall is that close, I would suggest that your problem is only the top 3 feet.

I would devise a similar system to mine, but make sure you utilise a drip profile at the bottom, so that the water you are deflecting doesn't just soak into the remainder of your wall.

Steer well clear of anything you apply to bricks to stop damp, they are not that effective and very expensive, I have trid many in the past, including 'professional' quality ones from Sovereign, to no real effect.

Hope this helps.

Liam.
 
Triggaar...some photos would help. Liam's answer would work a treat, and is my preferred solution to the wall issue provided you have the room. Don't try and waterproof bricks with a chemical.

Mike
 
liam8223":p3c2v1cn said:
If the boundary wall is that close, I would suggest that your problem is only the top 3 feet.

I would devise a similar system to mine, but make sure you utilise a drip profile at the bottom, so that the water you are deflecting doesn't just soak into the remainder of your wall.
Thanks Liam. The wall really is that close, so I agree that the problem is the top 3 feet (and stopping that rain dropping to the bottom section). Could you help me better understand how this would work. I think my problem with this will be how it looks to my neighbours, who are really nice and I want to keep them happy. They like the wall as it is, and don't want it to be an eyesaw. I could probably do anything at the the same level as the boundary wall, as that would be difficult for them to see.


Steer well clear of anything you apply to bricks to stop damp, they are not that effective and very expensive

Mike Garnham":p3c2v1cn said:
Don't try and waterproof bricks with a chemical.
I am not ignoring you guys, you know a lot more about this than me. I don't fully understand though. The epoxy paint I've used to damp proof the floor works well for floors. Why wouldn't it work on a wall, if you left the outside of the wall bare so that it could breath?

some photos would help
This is the inside, I'll pop out now and take an outside shot of the side wall (prepare yourselves)
DSC_4076.jpg
 
My garage has a similar problem, albeit the 1930's interior render seems to keep the damp from penetrating the inside of the garage. Drill a hole and, once through the render, the dust stops and I get brick coloured paste!

Waterproof render on the inside?
 
Yes, aesthetics can be an issue.

I would suggest approaching your nice neighbours and asking the question.

You could quite easily paint the cladding, and maybe agree to do so regularly as a sweetener?

The chemicals simply do not work.

I have used an epoxy paint before on a floor, and yes it worked for a short while, but the damp, if bad enough will soon lift the paint, as it did on my old floor.

I'm only speaking on my experience!

Liam.
 
Photobucket isn't working at the moment, so I can't upload the new pictures.
liam8223":2iyfbyef said:
You could quite easily paint the cladding, and maybe agree to do so regularly as a sweetener?
There is no cladding at the moment, but are you suggesting I add cladding?

I have used an epoxy paint before on a floor, and yes it worked for a short while, but the damp, if bad enough will soon lift the paint, as it did on my old floor.
I see. I hopefully that won't happen to my floor, where the levelling compound I've used will keep the paint from lifting. So the only alternative to somehow fixing the outside would be to put a plastic sheet dpm on the wall, held with battens (with screws that would break the dpm, but that's unavoidable).
 
Triggaaar":1sra4zys said:
The epoxy paint I've used to damp proof the floor works well for floors.

hmmmmm...........not so sure that's true looking at the photo! I'm really not sure what is going on there.

Mike
 
Mike Garnham":1p8jj8xq said:
hmmmmm...........not so sure that's true looking at the photo! I'm really not sure what is going on there.
:) That green stuff is just a primer, used before I put the levelling compound down. That's an old photo.

Anyway, hopefully photobucket is working now, so here's the side wall (back wall is the same):
DSC_5226.jpg

DSC_5229.jpg
 
Could you not space off that wall - battons perhaps - clad it and have teh cladding "dripping" into some sort of gutter at the bottom? With it being clad - it will match the rest of it and would look attractive to the neighbours. Less industrial than tin sheeting.
 
Dibs-h":1lvhau7d said:
Could you not space off that wall - battons perhaps - clad it and have teh cladding "dripping" into some sort of gutter at the bottom?
If you just mean the top 3 feet of the wall, yes, I could do that. Not particularly cheap to clad it in oak, but I guess it would work. Fitting a gutter would be a problem though. I built a parapet wall in the first place because my neighbours didn't want a gutter there. I could just try and make the water drip onto the boundary wall from the bottom piece of oak. Not sure how it would look - oak is nice, but it would be an unusual use (parapet wall).
 
Triggaaar":21cs51u0 said:
Dibs-h":21cs51u0 said:
Could you not space off that wall - battons perhaps - clad it and have teh cladding "dripping" into some sort of gutter at the bottom?
If you just mean the top 3 feet of the wall, yes, I could do that. Not particularly cheap to clad it in oak, but I guess it would work. Fitting a gutter would be a problem though. I built a parapet wall in the first place because my neighbours didn't want a gutter there. I could just try and make the water drip onto the boundary wall from the bottom piece of oak. Not sure how it would look - oak is nice, but it would be an unusual use (parapet wall).

I was going to say box gutter - but the gap looks rather tight. I suppose what I'm saying is that as Liam has pointed out you need to have a covering on the wall to stop the driving rain from penetrating and then have something to take the water away that has been directed to the bottom.

You could direct it over the wall - but that might result in it seeping back in thru the boundary wall.
 
What a nightmare! God.....you should have got an architect involved before you got in such a mess. Building overhand (ie from the inside) inevitably means that your pointing is poor externally. It is easy to see the squeezed out bed-joints and where the bed joints don't reach brick face. Both act as a shelf for all the moisture to sit on, permanently wetting the bricks.

I don't know what to suggest.

edit: Advice removed ........I can't risk it.

Mike
 
Dibs-h":1zidfkju said:
I was going to say box gutter - but the gap looks rather tight. I suppose what I'm saying is that as Liam has pointed out you need to have a covering on the wall to stop the driving rain from penetrating and then have something to take the water away that has been directed to the bottom.

You could direct it over the wall - but that might result in it seeping back in thru the boundary wall.
Yes it is too tight. If the water made it to the bottom, that would probably be good enough - we're not talking about water from the roof, just what hits my wall, so not masses of water. No house has anywhere for such water to go other than down the bricks and cavities.

Mike Garnham":1zidfkju said:
you should have got an architect involved before you got in such a mess
It was designed by an architect (I asked for my wall to be built as close to the boundary wall as possible).

Building overhand (ie from the inside) inevitably means that your pointing is poor externally. It is easy to see the squeezed out bed-joints and where the bed joints don't reach brick face. Both act as a shelf for all the moisture to sit on, permanently wetting the bricks.
Indeed. But building it away from the wall would've made my 6 foot wide workshop 5 foot wide, which wouldn't be good. I'll get that half a brick out.

Maybe the sensible route is to batten out and clad the exposed bit of your garage wall, with a lead flashing on top of the boundary wall dressed up under the cladding. You must deal with all rainwater from your roof within your own boundary.....them's the rules.......
Interesting, I didn't know that - but the rainwater is not from my roof, it's just from the wall (the roof rainwater already makes it to my downpipe) - does that mean I don't have to deal with it? Either way, I could just try and get the water to trickle down my side of the boundary wall. It would then sit and the bottom and soak into the concrete or run out, which isn't great, but might not be a problem. Getting it to run nicely would be tough).

Then that damned gap. Useless for ventilation, full of rubbish at the bottom (even a half-brick), and yet preventing any access. Again....first job is to get it clear and clean.
Any tips on how to do this - there will be lumps of hard pug down there, not sure I can do anything with it.

What about filling the gap entirely? ... You would then have to weather-proof both ends of the exposed foam with some form of cladding.
I can't really get to both ends. You can see one end - the other end is a corner, and the back wall of the workshop is exactly the same - I can't get to it apart from above.

While I don't mind the idea of filling the gap, that sounds far too difficult and expensive. I appreciate the idea, as if there's no decent alternative, what choice do I have.

What do you think would be the problem with just cladding the top 3 feet and letting the water run down my side of the boundary wall?
 
Look at it this way - you have X litres of water hitting your wall over Y hours - resulting in it soaking thru.

Now if you fit some sort of cladding - you will have some of it retained by the cladding (assuming it's wood) but some running off. If you assume 3/4 stills runs off (just picking numbers here - it probably will be more run off than 3/4) - this now runs down to the gap - this volume could still cause the inside to be wet.

Unless you "channel" the run-off in a controlled fashion to somwhere else - you are simply transferring the issue somewhere else.

Well it is to me anyway.

HIH

Dibs
 
Dibs-h":3uswlg74 said:
Unless you "channel" the run-off in a controlled fashion to somwhere else - you are simply transferring the issue somewhere else.
Yes I know what you mean. It's just whether the voume would be a problem or not. I guess that although this happens to all houses, the water would normally hit soil or a path when it gets to te ground, and then trickle away. If I did allow the water to get to the ground, I'd need it to be able to trickle away.

Thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.
 
I had a similar issue with my wall - but thankfully reducing the soil on the other side and clearing out the gap solved my problem.

But before I did that I did look into what else could be done and where to get the stuff etc. from or who to use. I did have a chat with these individuals who certainly did offer a few solutions and the pump rentals if you chose to DIY (which I felt was a possibility, as it was the lack of kit which would otherwise stop you doing it)

http://www.aquatecnic.info/content/view/16417/182/

The KB Pur Gel and 2 part injectable foams were discussed. Not the cheapest but useful info nonetheless
 
Not an expert but I'd be tempted to get a gutter made (zinc?) that attaches to the wall of the building and extends out slightly over the garden wall, thus preventing any rainfall going directly down between the building and the garden wall; whilst creating a channel for the rainfall hitting the wall to go in front or behind the building. Then render the wall, coming down over where the gutter is attached.

I'm also wondering whether air vents through the inside of the building would help ventilate. When the door/s are open the building acts like a funnel.
 
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