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Only 53 needed now 
thanks Adam for telling us all about it =D> =D> =D>
Cheers Peter
thanks Adam for telling us all about it =D> =D> =D> Cheers Peter
Petition for quality saw files...
- Thread starter rileytoolworks
- Start date
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FenceFurniture
Established Member
Just by way of a quick diversion while we await the test results. Over the weekend my son and I went up to Coffs Harbour to visit my father (about 500 miles each way). We have a long history of timber in our family, with the first immigrant from England (six generations back) landing on 28th August 1841.
Sitting out in the back yard, and I was gobsmacked to look at his (quite recent) paling fence and realise that damn near the whole thing is riddled with fiddleback palings!
I tell ya - it was killin' me (esp in the context of my forum name). #-o
Understandably Dad wants me to keep his address a secret. :lol:
Son and I went down to Coffs Harbour Jetty on Satdy arvo, and yup, the walkway is made from the same stuff. In fact there were some 5x5 posts that would make turners weep!
Question: How does one go about arranging to have a fence left to them in a will? Could be a bit tricky with the neighbours..... :mrgreen:
I have a tale to tell about Grandad's Axe, but have to take a pic later this morning.
Cheers
FF
Sitting out in the back yard, and I was gobsmacked to look at his (quite recent) paling fence and realise that damn near the whole thing is riddled with fiddleback palings!
I tell ya - it was killin' me (esp in the context of my forum name). #-o
Understandably Dad wants me to keep his address a secret. :lol:
Son and I went down to Coffs Harbour Jetty on Satdy arvo, and yup, the walkway is made from the same stuff. In fact there were some 5x5 posts that would make turners weep!
Question: How does one go about arranging to have a fence left to them in a will? Could be a bit tricky with the neighbours..... :mrgreen:
I have a tale to tell about Grandad's Axe, but have to take a pic later this morning.
Cheers
FF
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FenceFurniture
Established Member
My Grandfather was a Cedar Getter in the Dorrigo (a locally very famous timber area) in the first half of the 20th C. I'm sure he had a few axes in his time, but this is the survivor:
About 20 years ago Dad was travelling NSW regularly with his work, and was on the lookout for a replacement handle. He only wanted a genuine Hickory handle, and finally found one in a coastal town somewhere on the NSW south coast (probably around Bega/Eden).
He assures me that it isn't the traditional Grandpa's Axe (you know, the great axe that's had 7 new handles and three new heads, but by crikey it's been a good axe! :mrgreen: ).
However, the may be some room for doubt there because Dad was pretty sure it was a "Plumb" brand axe. Closer inspection reveals it to be a "HyTest Craftsman". :lol:
Regardless of how many incarnations there have been, it's quite a thrill to be the custodian of Grandad's Axe (particularly as I never knew him).
About 20 years ago Dad was travelling NSW regularly with his work, and was on the lookout for a replacement handle. He only wanted a genuine Hickory handle, and finally found one in a coastal town somewhere on the NSW south coast (probably around Bega/Eden).
He assures me that it isn't the traditional Grandpa's Axe (you know, the great axe that's had 7 new handles and three new heads, but by crikey it's been a good axe! :mrgreen: ).
However, the may be some room for doubt there because Dad was pretty sure it was a "Plumb" brand axe. Closer inspection reveals it to be a "HyTest Craftsman". :lol:
Regardless of how many incarnations there have been, it's quite a thrill to be the custodian of Grandad's Axe (particularly as I never knew him).
FenceFurniture
Established Member
"The Prize Lies Beneath - hidden in full view"
Last off-topic post - I promise.
Those uniformly grey palings reveal stuff like this when planed down a couple of millmetres (about 1/16th" or so).
That's the inside of the Barn Door, and this one is probably my favourite:
It's "nearly new" timber, with just enough of the aged layer to give it the "character" that I seek.
I'd REALLY like to see what's inside that fence of Dad's
Last off-topic post - I promise.
Those uniformly grey palings reveal stuff like this when planed down a couple of millmetres (about 1/16th" or so).
That's the inside of the Barn Door, and this one is probably my favourite:
It's "nearly new" timber, with just enough of the aged layer to give it the "character" that I seek.
I'd REALLY like to see what's inside that fence of Dad's
TobyC
Established Member
You're lucky to have that axe, I don't think I have any tools that were my Grandfathers, but I do have plenty that were my fathers, and I still think of them as his even though he's been gone for many years.
FenceFurniture
Established Member
465 sigs now, a mere 35 to get to the psychological 500.
Australia still has the highest take-up rate, followed by the USA. Just sayin'......
Australia has 63 sigs, population 23mill (defaults to the 100% rate)
United States 324, pop 316mill (37% of the rate)
Canada 21, pop 35mill (22% of the rate)
United Kingdom 29, pop 63mill (17% of the rate)
As far as a comparison with Facebooks "likes" is concerned, I reckon a signature without comment is worth two likes (at least), and a sig with comment is worth three (simply because of the extra effort involved - a "like" is just a click).
Australia still has the highest take-up rate, followed by the USA. Just sayin'......
Australia has 63 sigs, population 23mill (defaults to the 100% rate)
United States 324, pop 316mill (37% of the rate)
Canada 21, pop 35mill (22% of the rate)
United Kingdom 29, pop 63mill (17% of the rate)
As far as a comparison with Facebooks "likes" is concerned, I reckon a signature without comment is worth two likes (at least), and a sig with comment is worth three (simply because of the extra effort involved - a "like" is just a click).
Brit (Andy)
Established Member
Only 13 signatures required to reach 500 guys. Be part of the revolution!!!
Bottom again. This country really has gone down the sh*thle. Full of lazy sods who can't even be bothered to sign a little petition.
From workshop of the world to assholes of the world. This is a national disgrace.
From workshop of the world to assholes of the world. This is a national disgrace.
TobyC
Established Member
Look at the bright side!
Only 12 more till 500!
The pen,... I mean computer,... is mightier than the sword,... I mean file manufacturer!
We’re gonna kick the bean counters square in the beans!!!
Only 12 more till 500!
The pen,... I mean computer,... is mightier than the sword,... I mean file manufacturer!
We’re gonna kick the bean counters square in the beans!!!
FenceFurniture
Established Member
YIPPEE! 503 sigs! THANK YOU ALL.
Keep going though, don't let me interrupt you.....
COUNTRY SIGS POPULATION RATIO
Australia 65 sigs 23mill pop, 1 take up rate
New Zealand 5 4.4mill 2.5
United States 337 316mill 2.6
Canada 27 35mill 3.7
Sweden 5 9.5mill 5.4
United Kingdom 32 63mill 5.6
Netherlands 8 16.7mill 5.9
Norway 2 5mill 7.1
Denmark 2 5.6mill 7.9
Belgium 4 11mill 7.9
Serbia 1 7.2mill 20.4
Switzerland 1 8mill 22.7
Hungary 1 10mill 27.9
Germany 5 80mill 45.3
Italy 3 59mill 56.1
France 2 65mill 92.5
Poland 1 38mill 108.6
Spain 1 47mill 132.6
South Africa 1 53mill 149.3
Keep going though, don't let me interrupt you.....
COUNTRY SIGS POPULATION RATIO
Australia 65 sigs 23mill pop, 1 take up rate
New Zealand 5 4.4mill 2.5
United States 337 316mill 2.6
Canada 27 35mill 3.7
Sweden 5 9.5mill 5.4
United Kingdom 32 63mill 5.6
Netherlands 8 16.7mill 5.9
Norway 2 5mill 7.1
Denmark 2 5.6mill 7.9
Belgium 4 11mill 7.9
Serbia 1 7.2mill 20.4
Switzerland 1 8mill 22.7
Hungary 1 10mill 27.9
Germany 5 80mill 45.3
Italy 3 59mill 56.1
France 2 65mill 92.5
Poland 1 38mill 108.6
Spain 1 47mill 132.6
South Africa 1 53mill 149.3
FenceFurniture
Established Member
Updated chart showing radii to nearest 0.05mm, and then 3 imperial "nearest to".
As you would expect, by going down in size for the "nearest to" it creates more individual radii as it becomes more accurate.
Interestingly, I have done the same circle on a photo trick for three other saws:
Garlick & Lynx 6tpi has a 1/64th" radius
Badaxe 9tpi has a 1/64th" radius
Wenzloff 12tpi has a 1/52th" radius
It is paramount to note that although these saws have never been sharpened, and are therefore at the original gullet radius set by the maker, THAT cannot be taken as a standard, simply because the gullets are a product of whatever radius file was available.
In the case of the Wenzloff he has used a slightly larger radius file on smaller teeth - he was probbly having trouble getting files! No surprise there.
The owner of these saws (Mark - Claw Hama) then went off to look at all his other saws and found that from 6 to 16 tpi all had a 1/64th radius - close as dammit.
So what does this mean? Well, based upon the above being true and accepted, it means that leaving out file lengths, face widths and tapers, and JUST concentrating on corners (the MOST critical part) there is only one file required to cover 6-16 tpi, AND THAT IS WEIRDO!
I'm quite sure that will set the cat amongst the pidgeons!
meeeYOWWW!
Oh yeah, 502 signatures. YEEHAH!
As you would expect, by going down in size for the "nearest to" it creates more individual radii as it becomes more accurate.
Interestingly, I have done the same circle on a photo trick for three other saws:
Garlick & Lynx 6tpi has a 1/64th" radius
Badaxe 9tpi has a 1/64th" radius
Wenzloff 12tpi has a 1/52th" radius
It is paramount to note that although these saws have never been sharpened, and are therefore at the original gullet radius set by the maker, THAT cannot be taken as a standard, simply because the gullets are a product of whatever radius file was available.
In the case of the Wenzloff he has used a slightly larger radius file on smaller teeth - he was probbly having trouble getting files! No surprise there.
The owner of these saws (Mark - Claw Hama) then went off to look at all his other saws and found that from 6 to 16 tpi all had a 1/64th radius - close as dammit.
So what does this mean? Well, based upon the above being true and accepted, it means that leaving out file lengths, face widths and tapers, and JUST concentrating on corners (the MOST critical part) there is only one file required to cover 6-16 tpi, AND THAT IS WEIRDO!
I'm quite sure that will set the cat amongst the pidgeons!
meeeYOWWW!
Oh yeah, 502 signatures. YEEHAH!
FenceFurniture
Established Member
It only looks like it's quiet at the moment because all the action is "off-camera". I've completed the designs and specs for a new range, and have started work on the document for presentation.
Also, I have sent out 24 files to go around to 3 different testers for evaluation. This is really just proving what we already know, but hard data is required of course. The first tester has finished, and of the 24 there are only 4 files that he would consider purchasing (no surprise). It must be said that whilst these 4 files performed "ok" they could be a lot better. I'll be publishing the results in a couple of weeks when the other two guys have finished.
In the mean time I'm still trying to turn up a manufacturer who is already making good files (wish me luck!). There are two remaining that need to be examined more closely - one in Italy and one in Japan - emails have been sent to people on the ground in those two countries.
The latest manufacturer to be discounted is Baiter in Switzerland, who now get there Needle & Precision files from Vallorbe, and their Saw Files look so suspiciously Indian that I am not going to even bother trying to get some sent over. Even the Italian company Corradi is now just rebadging other people's files, in a similar (or identical) way to Baiter.
Regards
Brett
Also, I have sent out 24 files to go around to 3 different testers for evaluation. This is really just proving what we already know, but hard data is required of course. The first tester has finished, and of the 24 there are only 4 files that he would consider purchasing (no surprise). It must be said that whilst these 4 files performed "ok" they could be a lot better. I'll be publishing the results in a couple of weeks when the other two guys have finished.
In the mean time I'm still trying to turn up a manufacturer who is already making good files (wish me luck!). There are two remaining that need to be examined more closely - one in Italy and one in Japan - emails have been sent to people on the ground in those two countries.
The latest manufacturer to be discounted is Baiter in Switzerland, who now get there Needle & Precision files from Vallorbe, and their Saw Files look so suspiciously Indian that I am not going to even bother trying to get some sent over. Even the Italian company Corradi is now just rebadging other people's files, in a similar (or identical) way to Baiter.
Regards
Brett
Signed up.
It took me ages to read all the comments on this point, & I was left fascinated.
I've started collecting old tools, following on from starting to woodturn, & even through my ignorance some of the things I handle I can tell they're quality. Not so with files it's clear. As I'd like to sharpen saws myself the info here I see as invaluable. I have about 50 files & wouldn't know a good from bad.
One comment; we're in a throwaway society now & thus quality doesn't matter to the masses, & they're the ones making the profits for the manufacturers. I've been as guilty as the next person but poverty has made me less abusive to the things I have. Maybe a prolonged recession will change the minds of others.
Finally, given the weather, sitting in the garden listening to the cricket & cleaning up my car boot finds has been extremely good for the soul
It took me ages to read all the comments on this point, & I was left fascinated.
I've started collecting old tools, following on from starting to woodturn, & even through my ignorance some of the things I handle I can tell they're quality. Not so with files it's clear. As I'd like to sharpen saws myself the info here I see as invaluable. I have about 50 files & wouldn't know a good from bad.
One comment; we're in a throwaway society now & thus quality doesn't matter to the masses, & they're the ones making the profits for the manufacturers. I've been as guilty as the next person but poverty has made me less abusive to the things I have. Maybe a prolonged recession will change the minds of others.
Finally, given the weather, sitting in the garden listening to the cricket & cleaning up my car boot finds has been extremely good for the soul
Brit (Andy)
Established Member
Thanks for signing Kreed. Every signature helps.
FYI - I recently recorded a free full length instructional video on saw sharpening if you're interested in learning how to do it. You can find it at the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mn ... upxpPo_QZw
FYI - I recently recorded a free full length instructional video on saw sharpening if you're interested in learning how to do it. You can find it at the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_MF2Mn ... upxpPo_QZw
FenceFurniture
Established Member
The testing results of 23 different files by 3 testers of different perspectives are in, and I have collated them.
I have to write some preamble notes, take quite a lot of photos and then they will be ready to publish in a day or two (fair bit of Photoshop work to do as well - combining before/after images, teeth that were cut yadda yadda).
I have to write some preamble notes, take quite a lot of photos and then they will be ready to publish in a day or two (fair bit of Photoshop work to do as well - combining before/after images, teeth that were cut yadda yadda).
FenceFurniture
Established Member
Rather than clag up this thread with the test results, I have started another one:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post791279.html
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post791279.html
