Panel Saw Problems

[Rhyolith]

My friend has been having problems with a panel saw, this despite several sharpenings. He thought is was the tensioning that was the problem (hence the thread on saw tensioning), but having looked at it myself and used it, I think it might be that its a rip saw for cutting down the grain oppose to a crosscut saw as my friend thought it was. The problem may therefore stem from him sharpening it like a crosscut saw... but don't know enough to know what effect this would have.

The main issue with it is it jams repeatedly in the cut, i have also noticed the teeth tend to scoop up wood like spoons (a little). It cuts better down the grain, this and the fact to me it looks like a rip saw makes me think that is what it is.

Here are some picture of the teeth:
Untitled by Rhyolith, on Flickr
Untitled by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Please advice on what sort on saw this is and any problems you can see with the teeth.

 

[D_W]

Yes, it's filed rip.

You can relax the rake on it for him with a file and probably do some rough crosscutting, but you'd be better off getting a saw set for crosscutting and saving that one for when you actually want to rip.

Contrary to popular belief, ripping by hand isn't really that big of a time suck when woodworking. Thickness planing by hand is the only thing I can think of that really can't be done quickly and crosses the bar from physically satisfying to torturous in some cases.

 

[Rhyolith]

So as it is now its fine for cutting down the grain?

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

As far as I understand it the only difference between a crosscut and rip cut saw is the way the teeth are sharpened. If the front of each tooth is filed close to vertical then it will rip, if it is at roughly 45 degrees then it is for crosscut. If your friend has sharpened it as a crosscut saw it IS a crosscut saw, however looking at the photos it looks to be filed for ripcut. There are some other differences in the tooth geometry, crooscut saws also need some fleam and slope. I'm gonna have a hard time explaining this in words, maybe refer to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9FC6LnHT7A . Personally I find rip filing much easier and my tenon/dovetail saws, panel saw and coarse toothed rip saw all cut excellently, however I have never really got a crosscut saw to cut better than a six quid hardpoint for rough work or a Japanese Kataba for joinery. One day when all the other jobs are done I'll practice more.
Paddy

 

[pedder]

It is überdull. (hammer) (hammer) It should have been sharpened a few miles of using ago.

It is filed rip and if it jmas, some more set will help, too.


Cheers
Pedder

 

[deema]

I'm sorry if I offend, but it's been butchered rather than sharpened.

A panel saw should be sharpened for cross cut. The difference between a rip cut saw and a cross cut saw is not the front angle of the teeth, but whether it has any fleam. Fleam is the angle which the file is given laterally when filing the teeth. There are a lot of good saw sharpening articles and utube videos on the subject. Personally I would get the saw professionally sharpened (c£25) and then as it goes dull practice resharpening it from a point where I knew what it looked / felt like when sharp.

The teeth should have some set, not much, to stop the blade binding in the cut. An eclipse saw set of similar is a cheap but effective tool (c£10 off eBay).

 

[D_W]

So as it is now its fine for cutting down the grain?

Yes. If it doesn't give you a bit of stiffness (resistance) in the cut and feel like it's filing off the straws of wood, then it could use a resharpening (something that you can do yourself on a saw like that, a crosscut saw is a bit more difficult, but fortunately, crosscut saws will work pretty well as the tips round a little, whereas you want a rip saw to sever and never rasp).

 

[bugbear]

There are some other differences in the tooth geometry, crooscut saws also need some fleam and slope. I'm gonna have a hard time explaining this in words,

Blackburn tools have a quite excellent page on the essentials.

http://blackburntools.com/articles/saw- ... index.html

BugBear

 

[Rhyolith]

Its not my saw so I cannot do anything do it (plus I don't have the tools here).

I mainly want a "diagnostic" of whats wrong with it so I can just tell my friend (he will probably want to know if he is doing the sharpening wrong).

The friend's who's it is does not have the internet, so cannot look up youtube or anything.

 

[ED65]

i have also noticed the teeth tend to scoop up wood like spoons (a little).

That's characteristic of rip saws, because the front of the tooth is at 90° to the cut each tooth acts almost like a tiny chisel. So rips create little shavings of wood while crosscut saws form dust.

About the jamming, obviously more set will help with that but I'm surprised nobody mentioned this already, is the plate waxed?

Right now with the saw as it is the difference between completely bare and well waxed could be dramatic.

If it's not waxed I would give the entire thing a coat of paste wax and then buff off, then scribble over it heavily with the butt of a candle. Now try the saw again, if there's not a marked improvement I'll be very surprised indeed.

 

[AndyT]

+1 for waxing, but I'd also want to remove some of that brown "non-slip coating" it seems to have developed!

 

[blackrodd]

I worked in the saw shop for a year, when I learnt my trade and that saw looks as if it needs topping with a flat file until all the teeth are touched
and then it needs a careful sharpen until the teeth tops do NOT shine and then set.
As you're friend has no internet, perhaps you could print off this 1 page for him, you'll see that the all the information he needs is on there.
On the Left hand top page, you will see a shop made simple file angle guide.
HTH Regards Rodders

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=HAND+ ... o4yIfiM%3A

Or this one.
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/glossary.html