Opinion please re movement problem with wood floor

[markturner]

For a 15k job with essentially nothing to show for it, but a customer who might not give you a glowing reference, regardless of the quality of the other work (odd how with some people, 99 things right and 1 thing wrong and you're a cowboy builder to some), sounds like the next time you get one of these, refuse it, as you are obviously worth a lot more, and would make more money doing several smaller jobs in the same period.

Hi all, the job is worth £170,000 overall, but there is £15K of work I am doing at cost for them within that. Of course, far better to make less money and have a satisfied client, but it just does annoy when as you say, people take the stance that everything is your fault. We won the FMB master builder of the year award last year for the London region, so we have a lot to live up to, and I wont do anything to jeopardize our reputation.

Thanks for all the advice and support!

Cheers, Mark

 

[Shrubby]

Looks like your making the best of a tricky situation. Have you put a clause in your contracts about 'customer supplied materials' - clients want to save money but it makes work difficult when you have high standards too maintain
Matt

 

[rafezetter]

Looks like your making the best of a tricky situation. Have you put a clause in your contracts about 'customer supplied materials' - clients want to save money but it makes work difficult when you have high standards too maintain
Matt

This sounds like a good idea for the future, something that simply states materials supplied by the customer are not covered by your quality guarantee (repair or replace at your cost / labour) as you had no chance to inspect them for quality before purchase, or how they were stored etc etc.

This should in the future mean you'll have less customers trying to cut you out and going direct for things and the subsequent lack of QC, and less chances of you being held responsible for materials that may have had issues before you even touched them.

 

[markturner]

Hi Matt, Raff......that sounds ok in theory, but would run foul of the issue here, which I think is not the quality of the wood and how dry or not it was. It certainly looked like some of the best quality lumber I have seen supplied for floorboards in some time. The issue is primarily what would be reasonably expected of the installer to do, to prevent problems related to movement in the wood. I think we did pretty much all we could - we made sure the plaster was dry, we installed a de hum, to take the moisture out of the air from the screed, we waited as near as possible to the end of the job and the house had all the windows and doors fitted etc. Pretty much the last thing that happens in a refurb is the heating gets commissioned and turned on...rads are only hung on the wall or placed on the finished floor after decorating and oiling etc - very tricky to put that earlier into the schedule, for many reasons.

As has been stated, the wood is going to move, unless you kiln dry it somehow to the exact RH and dryness that it would be at, in the completed and centrally heated house, then somehow keep it thus and install in the house when the house is complete. Not easy or practical and probably not compatible with programs and the clients expectations.

Even if we had supplied the wood, we would have had the same problem - they were saying it was our fault it absorbed water after it had been dried ( we installed it before the house was properly dry) and also our fault as professional builders, because we should have known that would happen. We are of course aware of the potential issue, many jobs we do, we have to go back later and repaint all the cracks that have opened up where the skirtings and architraves meet the walls and frames etc. This is normal. My take is that is almost impossible to avoid this kind of issue, no matter how diligent you are.

Annyway, you live and learn, maybe I will right something into our preamble to point out potential issues like this ........ much of the problem is client expectations and managing these.

Cheers, Mark

 

[Wood Monkey]

Good on you Mark for doing the right thing and solving the issue to the satisfaction of your client and not the detriment of your hard earned reputation.

You are right to feel aggrieved by the attitude of the client and I'm astonished that with the total budget you state they haven't got an architect or professional of some description in place who is telling them that the wood clearly wasn't as dry as the supplier suggested. After all, these aren't the only floor boards that have ever shrunk.

It's sad that the trade has come to the point where many clients start with the view that 'builders are dodgy' and immediately go on the attack when something isn't quite right. Sure every trade has good and bad, but I the building trade gets a worse rap than most.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Its like double glazing salesman.....each one pays the reputation price that was earned by some schmuck 20 years before. They could be Ghandi and the client would still assume they're a crook!

 

[MIGNAL]

I think there's some misunderstanding on RH levels throughout the year. Generally speaking summer can give higher humidity levels than a cold winter with snow. That's why our lips crack when we get an icy blast in winter.
The difference comes in drying out wet wood in a cold, relatively sealed environment. In that situation warmth and a good air flow is required. To reduce the humidity fairly quickly in 3 or 4 rooms of even a small house requires some pretty serious industrial dehumidifiers. Freshly plastered walls are notoriously bad for dumping high humidity levels in rooms.

 

[MMUK]

Its like double glazing salesman.....each one pays the reputation price that was earned by some schmuck 20 years before. They could be Ghandi and the client would still assume they're a crook!

I hate double glazing salesmen. Especially Everest, Safestyle and Zenith!

I did a sales course with Zenith a number of years ago. What a crock of dung they teach. No ethics at all. All they care about is you not leaving the house without a signed order and deposit cheque. If you come away empty handed, not only do you not earn anything but you get penalised as well. It's Zenith salesmen who featured regularly on the House of Horrors programme about dodgy trades in your home (a bit like Cowboy Builders but it was on back in the 1990's).