Oak gate construction advice

[flanajb]

Hi,

I want to construct a gate in a similar fashion to the one shown below. Given the gate is going to be outside I am trying to understand how I fix the floating T&G to the bottom rail. I can see that on the stiles and top rail the T&G will sit in the grove, but as they will have to be floating to allow for expansion I can't see how they remain fixed if the bottom is not fixed in some manner. Do I fix the bottom boards using a slot cutter like you do for a table top?

Confused!

Thanks

 

[longinthetooth]

Shown below???

 

[flanajb]

Shown below???

Oops!

 

[AndyT]

A simple solution would be to nail the T&G to the rail behind. Nails have enough give to move a bit with the wood. It is a garden gate, not a jewellery box!

You could use galvanised nails or even copper boat nails if you were bothered about black stains, but down there in the dirt I would just punch the heads below the surface and not worry about it.

 

[katellwood]

If you are putting t & g in the bottom of the gate and do not want to see fixings then just screw and pellet the boards to the bottom rail with a slightly oversize hole for the screws. Any movement will purely be in each board and not the full width of boards therefore, there will be no fixing issues

In addition I would put a brace in the bottom section to accommodate anyone swinging on the gate and the gate dropping as individual boards will not maintain squareness as opposed to one single panel

 

[G S Haydon]

If you are putting t & g in the bottom of the gate and do not want to see fixings then just screw and pellet the boards to the bottom rail with a slightly oversize hole for the screws. Any movement will purely be in each board and not the full width of boards therefore, there will be no fixing issues

In addition I would put a brace in the bottom section to accommodate anyone swinging on the gate and the gate dropping as individual boards will not maintain squareness as opposed to one single panel

Verbatim =D>

 

[ColeyS1]

I see no reason you couldn't secret nail (through the tongue) and just face nail the last out side board. Just be careful with the nail length. I quite often nail em in 30- 45º to prevent the nail popping out the other side. Pretty looking gate btw

Sent from my GT-I9300

 

[Cottonwood]

I agree with the previous poster. The design is weak, it really needs another rail along the bottom, not just for additional strength and solidity, but water is going to wick right up into the endgrain of the t&g boards as it is in the drawing, they wont last as long. If there is an additional rail, then you wont need to worry about fixing the boards by nailing/screws etc, they will just sit in the lower rebate

 

[MickCheese]

I agree with the previous poster. The design is weak, it really needs another rail along the bottom, not just for additional strength and solidity, but water is going to wick right up into the endgrain of the t&g boards as it is in the drawing, they wont last as long. If there is an additional rail, then you wont need to worry about fixing the boards by nailing/screws etc, they will just sit in the lower rebate

I was just thinking that too. I also think it looks like someone has chopped down a larger gate.

Mick

 

[flanajb]

There is a rail sited on the back of the gate behind the T&G. I did think about putting another rail along the bottom, but then you have the added problem that you will most likely get standing water at the bottom of the rebate and the end grain will sit in that instead.

It is a tricky one as no matter what design you go for it is hard to find a perfect solution.

I think I am going to go for the design with the rail sitting behind the gate.

I did even contemplate using a sliding dovetail style joint on the bottom rail / T&G. That way the T&G can expand across it's width but still remain well attached to the gate

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I think I am going to go for the design with the rail sitting behind the gate.

That seems fair enough. Slide the T&G boards up into a groove at the top, nail them on at the lower front- hide the nails (preferably something that doesn't rust) in the tongue for all but the last board. If they get manky or rot you can rip out the old boards and replace them relatively easily. And if you use something durable such as oak or sweet chestnut you can expect fifteen to twenty five years before you'll need to replace anything, and that's for those wood species in ground contact, so anything above ground will last significantly longer.

It's virtually impossible to design something like this that eliminates all points where water can collect which admittedly does encourage bacterial and mould growth, so selecting a durable wood helps with longevity. But you can do simple things like bevel or round over the top edge of rails, stiles, etc which helps water drain off. Also, don't rely entirely on glue to hold joints together because moisture cycling will affect the bond deleteriously-- even if you use glue (polyurethane being one of the few good ones for exterior joinery) reinforce the joint with draw-bored cross dowels (trunnels) so that you have mechanical locking.

I did even contemplate using a sliding dovetail style joint on the bottom rail / T&G. That way the T&G can expand across it's width but still remain well attached to the gate

It sounds like you might be overthinking the task with this idea! I'd go with the KISS principle, and pick a durable wood. I reckon if you get twenty or more years out of a gate made this way that will be not a bad return. Lastly, I suggest you use something like air dried oak assuming it's easily found where you are-- don't waste your money on the more expensive kiln dried stuff which is drier than you need and will want to expand significantly after you've made and installed the gate. You can use kiln dried stuff of course, but what's the point of spending extra money for something that offers no benefit to the task, and is not as well suited to the job as the air dried alternative? Slainte.

 

[ColeyS1]

Perhaps put boards on both sides ? Im currently making bottom half of a stable door - 56 mm thick stiles, 23 mm rails ( for a 19mm mortice) and 16.5 mm boards.

Sent from my GT-I9300

 

[flanajb]

I scrapped using oak and went with iroko as a result of it's high natural oil content. I think I am just going to screw and plug each board to the bottom rail.