I would get a quote from a joinery buisness. Only ever done one oak door, for a church, japanese oak was specified by architect.
Oak front door
- Thread starter paullap
- Start date
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I’ve made a few oak doors and windows, not professionally, but I was thought by a master joiner. I only ever use grade A kiln dried European or English Oak, as stated before it’s extremely hard to know if air dried is actually air dried or indeed air dried properly. It a lot of money and effort to discover it isn’t!
So, you want stuff for the styles and rails that has no twist in it, if it has twist yes you can machine it out, however as the atmosphere changes the stuff will twist again as it’s moisture content changes. Equally as little bow as possible for the same reason. There are solutions to reduce movement, you can split styles and rails in half and then turn one piece so the outside in now the inside and glue them back together. The seam can only be seen on the edge of the door, or at the rebate of the door frame which means it’s not ever seen. I have done this a few times.
I buy and rough dimension stuff to leave at least 6mm off finished dimensions, and then put it in stick preferably for a year….yes even kiln dried. I check what I buy for moisture content at the yard or when it first arrives and smear glue over the ends to stop splitting. If it’s an outside door it goes in the workshop out of any sun light. This allows the stuff to attain a moisture content consistent with your area, and if your ripping stuff down, allows movement to happen before you commit to where it will be used. I usually buy for a door an extra style, just in case anything misbehaves or I make a Billy do.
I leave things as long as I can for as long as I can, yes a lot of wisdom suggests you cut it to size and then final dimension. However, I’ve found that even at final thicknessing, stuff can move and the length gives me more options. After final dimensioning the old wisdom was to leave it a further month to re-stabilise, I don’t always do this.
I buy stuff so that I leave at 4” at either end of anything that’s not tenoned, if it’s tenoned generally I leave 4” extra. This accounts for any splitting and any snipe from the PT. It happens! Again, may seem wasteful, but better than finding your short. The difference for a tenon is that you will cut the checks (usually at least 4” long) away that usually gets rid of any snipe. Cracks can usually be glued and clamped if necessary And won’t be seen, the 4” of checks usually is enough to prevent the cracks running into anywhere seen. For a style, cracks at the ends just spells rot and a weak door, so you can’t allow them.
I don’t like draw tenons is a door, as the stuff will grow and shrink with the seasons and the pins being end grain don’t. So you end up with the pins either above or below the surface, spoiling the top coat and making the door look unsightly.
So, you want stuff for the styles and rails that has no twist in it, if it has twist yes you can machine it out, however as the atmosphere changes the stuff will twist again as it’s moisture content changes. Equally as little bow as possible for the same reason. There are solutions to reduce movement, you can split styles and rails in half and then turn one piece so the outside in now the inside and glue them back together. The seam can only be seen on the edge of the door, or at the rebate of the door frame which means it’s not ever seen. I have done this a few times.
I buy and rough dimension stuff to leave at least 6mm off finished dimensions, and then put it in stick preferably for a year….yes even kiln dried. I check what I buy for moisture content at the yard or when it first arrives and smear glue over the ends to stop splitting. If it’s an outside door it goes in the workshop out of any sun light. This allows the stuff to attain a moisture content consistent with your area, and if your ripping stuff down, allows movement to happen before you commit to where it will be used. I usually buy for a door an extra style, just in case anything misbehaves or I make a Billy do.
I leave things as long as I can for as long as I can, yes a lot of wisdom suggests you cut it to size and then final dimension. However, I’ve found that even at final thicknessing, stuff can move and the length gives me more options. After final dimensioning the old wisdom was to leave it a further month to re-stabilise, I don’t always do this.
I buy stuff so that I leave at 4” at either end of anything that’s not tenoned, if it’s tenoned generally I leave 4” extra. This accounts for any splitting and any snipe from the PT. It happens! Again, may seem wasteful, but better than finding your short. The difference for a tenon is that you will cut the checks (usually at least 4” long) away that usually gets rid of any snipe. Cracks can usually be glued and clamped if necessary And won’t be seen, the 4” of checks usually is enough to prevent the cracks running into anywhere seen. For a style, cracks at the ends just spells rot and a weak door, so you can’t allow them.
I don’t like draw tenons is a door, as the stuff will grow and shrink with the seasons and the pins being end grain don’t. So you end up with the pins either above or below the surface, spoiling the top coat and making the door look unsightly.
I was asked last week to make a custom oak door, I turned it down, partly because Im too busy with a house, but also because oak doors are a nightmare! They move, and customers don’t understand why they can end up with say a door that gaps at the top and isn’t completely straight. I’ve made the odd one for others, but always put in writing that it can move as it’s a natural movement. It doesn’t seem to make any difference when it does happen. For this reason, I believe, I was asked to make a door as every other joinery shop in the area had turned down the job, south facing not protected!!
This is for my own house, I am willing to give it a go, They have been using oak for years , I think I will buy the wood and store it in my workshop for a few months.
Paul
Paul
johnnyb
Established Member
customers are completely barmy usually. and totally predictable. they all want clear osmo. I suggestst sikkens they ponder then say I still want clear osmo. at that point I say " but it won't last long" oh I can refinish it every year they retort. "ffs is this not turned up" I reply pointing at my mouth.
Yojevol
Clocking on
Here's my effort of some 6 years:-
I collected the timber over a number of years. The panel material was won at an auction of very old stock. I had to discard some of it due to worm damage. When I actually started the project I needed more timber to make a new frame. This was purchased as air dried (I took my meter with me) 4 x 2 European oak (quercus robur).
Joints are blind m & t, dowelled, no glue. Aquaseal 21 draught proofed. I bought a router cutter to do the grooving and sold it on afterwards.
As you can see from the first pic it is partially protected by a veranda, however the sun does get to bottom,hence the bleaching.
I was very reluctant to make a hole in my lovely woodwork for a letterbox, but SWMBO wouldn't entertain an external mailbox.
A very satisfying project
Brian
I collected the timber over a number of years. The panel material was won at an auction of very old stock. I had to discard some of it due to worm damage. When I actually started the project I needed more timber to make a new frame. This was purchased as air dried (I took my meter with me) 4 x 2 European oak (quercus robur).
Joints are blind m & t, dowelled, no glue. Aquaseal 21 draught proofed. I bought a router cutter to do the grooving and sold it on afterwards.
As you can see from the first pic it is partially protected by a veranda, however the sun does get to bottom,hence the bleaching.
I was very reluctant to make a hole in my lovely woodwork for a letterbox, but SWMBO wouldn't entertain an external mailbox.
A very satisfying project
Brian
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
No it's not, it's for holding joinery together.
johnnyb
Established Member
no joiners I'm aware of ever drawbored doors. doesn't mean it didn't happen of course. it feels like it's the right thing to do. and if a door has a brace would work I'm sure. as soon as the brace is dispensed then through tenons with wedges on the outside stop it sagging especially with wide multi horn rails in the middle and bottom and dodgy glue/paint used as glue.
johnnyb
Established Member
thetyreman
Established Member
I'd recommend reading 'doormaking and window making' from lost art press, excellent book, lots of different case studies inside that, it is still relevant as well today, as the author points out grain orientation is important for the frame and it gives you a good guide on how to orient it, the frame is just as important as the door itself.
I'd get hold of some air dried quartersawn english oak for this, draw bore haunched mortise and tenons have stood the test of time very well, even if the glue fails the draw bore pegs will keep it held together.
I'd get hold of some air dried quartersawn english oak for this, draw bore haunched mortise and tenons have stood the test of time very well, even if the glue fails the draw bore pegs will keep it held together.
Last edited:
Yojevol
Clocking on
For the substantial timbers of the frame and door, the orientation of the end grain pattern is really not relevant, so seeking out quarter sawn will just make life difficult. All that is required is nice straight grain over the whole length. It's a different matter for any panelling or thin sectioned items where QS will aid stability and add medulary ray cosmetic interest in the case of European oak
Indeed on panelled oak doors the difference between QS and crown-cut is often used to emphasise the grain patterns in the panels.
Brian
johnnyb
Established Member
if I can get it then every bit of wood on the show face would be quarter sawn. ( this would add to costs though) the better matched( preferably from one tree ) the more the faff therefore cost. often 50 or 60 percent of prime will be quarter sawn anyway. its difficult as a joiner making someone a door to select for the very best appearance as you simply don't have enough product.
That is a very nice door. Looks perfect to me
Love to see pictures as you go.
HOJ
Established Member
I'm going to be a party pooper.. again....Don't forget that an external window and/or door is classed as a "controlled fitting" under the Building Regulations, and as such make it notifiable.
So referring to historic references isn't going to help you make a door that will comply, unless your property is listed.
All the doors I make are a minimum of 56mm thick with an insulated core, twin perimeter frame drafts seals, SBD MPL locks and 28mm SDG units, and are fitted under a building control notice.
One I made earlier, with Green Oak timber frame porch over sail:
.
So referring to historic references isn't going to help you make a door that will comply, unless your property is listed.
All the doors I make are a minimum of 56mm thick with an insulated core, twin perimeter frame drafts seals, SBD MPL locks and 28mm SDG units, and are fitted under a building control notice.
One I made earlier, with Green Oak timber frame porch over sail:
.
thetyreman
Established Member
I'd guess somewhere like a oxford?
johnnyb
Established Member
not Oxford much further north.
johnnyb
Established Member
my controversial advice here is building control is a total shambles. most private firms can't get insurance after grenfell. that leaves council only. massively overstretched and hopelessly inefficient.
whilst I've no wish to start an argument if I had to choose between a in spec timber door as you describe and a plastic door I'd probably choose the latter. simply because they are both terribly ugly but I suspect the plastic door would be hugely cheaper. I've attended so many duff doors made by big joinery companies you would never credit it. badly fitted hugely heavy full of water traps and fitted without cover. many were going through court to little satisfaction. does having double draft seals mean a door is draught proof? of course not. does having an insulated panel make the house warmer. I wouldn't say so. it's just a tick box exercise that once ticked your no further to having a decent installation. if you possibly can do not get involved in that entire trap.
whilst I've no wish to start an argument if I had to choose between a in spec timber door as you describe and a plastic door I'd probably choose the latter. simply because they are both terribly ugly but I suspect the plastic door would be hugely cheaper. I've attended so many duff doors made by big joinery companies you would never credit it. badly fitted hugely heavy full of water traps and fitted without cover. many were going through court to little satisfaction. does having double draft seals mean a door is draught proof? of course not. does having an insulated panel make the house warmer. I wouldn't say so. it's just a tick box exercise that once ticked your no further to having a decent installation. if you possibly can do not get involved in that entire trap.
