Norton India Fine Oilstone.

[MJP]

Looking through my pile of collected/inherited/found stones, I found one that looked as if it might be interesting under all the grime.
I spent a while wiping it over with white spirit to find a very nice, little used, labelled, Norton India Oilstone, marked Fine No 0.
Now, I like to use water with a splash of detergent for sharpening but this is an oilstone, and has clearly had some little use as such - it is very oily in the pores.
Three questions:
First of all, what would be the approximate grit size of this stone? It's clearly fine, and produces a nice edge.
Secondly, can I now use water with this stone or have I to continue to use oil? I did give it a try with water and apart from the oiliness it seemed to work well enough.
and finally, even if I CAN use water, what would be the best for the stone in regard to its effectiveness, rate of wear, etc? Would it, overall, be better for the stone and for my sharpening to use oil with it?

Martin.

 

[bugbear]

First of all, what would be the approximate grit size of this stone?

From http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

280 grit ANSI(USA), 320 grit FEPA (Europe), 43 micron particle size.

The stone as supplied is actual soaked/loaded with thick oil, so it's very much
an oil stone, water isn't really an option.

I normally sharpen using a Washita, Arkansas sequence, but if I've used
a blade a little too long, and it's got quite blunt, an India fine
will raise a burr quickly as an additional first step. Very useful.

BugBear

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks Bugbear
I had been wondering what stone to get for the instance you describe, before the washita..
I shall look out for these
Tom

 

[bugbear]

Thanks Bugbear
I had been wondering what stone to get for the instance you describe, before the washita..
I shall look out for these
Tom

They''re very common - but commonest as a combination stone,
with the other half being a "medium", which is (IMHO) sodding useless.
It is indeed coarser than the fine side, but the particles seem less sharp,
so the cutting rate is about the same!

BugBear

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks Bugbear

 

[MJP]

...and yet another thank you to Bugbear.
I'm surprised that it's around 300 grit - seems finer. That's a very useful reference you gave -another one bookmarked.
OK, looks like I'm going to have to get to grips with sharpening with oil now.

As a matter of interest, are all stones that are labelled as oilstones already oil-impregnated, or is/was this just Norton practice?

 

[bugbear]

...and yet another thank you to Bugbear.
I'm surprised that it's around 300 grit - seems finer.
Oilstones always seem finer than their particle size would imply, since the oil
makes them slide-i-er. Trying use some 400 grit SiC and then adding oil to see the effect.

That's a very useful reference you gave -another one bookmarked.
OK, looks like I'm going to have to get to grips with sharpening with oil now.

As a matter of interest, are all stones that are labelled as oilstones already oil-impregnated, or is/was this just Norton practice?

Just Norton India AFAIK.

BugBear

 

[ED65]

First of all, what would be the approximate grit size of this stone?

I knew someone would have been along and pointed to something on this but the numbers are of only limited use. This sort of thing is best judged by effect, not going by published numbers as you've already discovered.

I have at present three sharpening surfaces here (four if you count one of my honing pastes on a beech strop) that don't perform as you'd expect from how they look, feel or going by the abrasive micron size. Respectively they act finer, much finer, coarser, and coarser than one would predict :?

Secondly, can I now use water with this stone or have I to continue to use oil? I did give it a try with water and apart from the oiliness it seemed to work well enough.

Yes you can use water and it won't have any negative effect on the stone. Norton Indias are famously tough, water, soapy water and window cleaner containing ammonia won't negatively affect the stone itself. They will change how it behaves however.

and finally, even if I CAN use water, what would be the best for the stone in regard to its effectiveness, rate of wear, etc? Would it, overall, be better for the stone and for my sharpening to use oil with it?

Whether you like the changes to how it works with something watery is up to you to decide, there's no best here. Often the opinion is to stick with oily liquids, but not always; it's all about what the user wants the stone to do.

As a matter of interest, are all stones that are labelled as oilstones already oil-impregnated, or is/was this just Norton practice?

Not just Norton. Oil-impregnation (actually done with something closer to petroleum jelly rather than an oil) was something that used to be commonplace.

 

[MJP]

Thanks for this, ED65. I've now tried this stone and a couple of my other favourites with light machine oil and I can see the difference - apart from the slipperiness which Bugbear has mentioned, they seem to cut more smoothly but work just as fast. I think I'll change over to sharpening with oil for a while, see which I like the best -though I have suspicion that oil will win.

 

[ED65]

If you're at all curious in experimenting further here's an incomplete list of possible honing liquids that are worth playing with on oilstones.

Watery:
Water.
Water with increasing amounts of washing-up liquid.
Washing-up liquid (this is a winner for many who try it).
Window cleaner.
Hair conditioner.

Oily:
White spirit.
WD-40.
Baby oil.
1:1 mix of white spirit and liquid paraffin (obviously you can try many other proportions too).
3-in-One.
Liquid paraffin.
Petroleum jelly.

In between:
A simple emulsion of oil and water, so you use plenty of washing up liquid in the mix to help keep it emulsified.
Hand lotion or moisturiser.

 

[MJP]

Well that should occupy me for a while! Sharpening chisels with Mayonnaise. Who'd a thunk it...

 

[bridger]

For most stones that don't absorb liquid- including diamond plates, arkansas and spyderco- I use isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle. I like that it cleans up easily, evaporates completely and doesn't promote rust. It's a good cleaner too so it helps with keeping the stones clean.

Norton india I just use with oil.

 

[MJP]

That's a good idea bridger - I am rather turning against water-based media now, thinking about the rust question (I've watched too much Paul Sellers and I oil all my chisels religiously after sharpening or use!), so something like ipa would be a good one to try.

Martin.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LITRE-Pharmace ... yl+alcohol Is as good as I found - it's single litres if you can find someone to share with. It is useful stuff, a good general cleaner and it softens hot melt glue as well (which is what I bought it for). I use it on a synthetic oilstone, the diamond plates and natural stones.

 

[MJP]

£18 for five litres - that's a good price. I've got a couple of litres floating around here somewhere that I can make a start with. I can see I'm not going to do much real work (I'm a bookseller) again today!

Martin.

 

[memzey]

Can ipa be used with shellac instead of meths?

 

[Jacob]

To clean and freshen up an oil stone I find 3m diapad best. Not cheap but they last forever. Just a quick rub over stone flooded with oil, every now and then. Flexible so it follows the dips and hollows.
Rare earth magnet is good too. It keeps stone and oil clean and removes debris which might get embedded.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-3M-DIAPAD- ... SwiLdV-n3P

 

[bugbear]

Can ipa be used with shellac instead of meths?

Yes. Basically you want the purest alcohol you can get/afford. Beware of "rubbing alcohol"
which is 30% water, and won't work at all.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

I use one daily, along with a firm rubber strop and AlOx powder, it's about all I use. My Black Ark. shattered in a fall, and I don't miss it at all. These India stones hone finer than their 'grit equivalent' might otherwise suggest.

 

[D_W]

Oilstones like an india stone stay clean if you use a light/medium oil like mineral oil. Same with crystolon stones. Something lighter, and they can clog.

Indias are excellent stones that don't get their due, probably because there's little to be made by selling them.

As far as fineness, they have only ever felt as coarse as their rating to me when they're brand new. Once they settle out of that, never again.

They are excellent knife stones, too (not as a finisher, though) - put a knife to them any way you want and they take no damage and raise a burr fairly quickly. I can't imagine sharpening kitchen knives on synthetic waterstones - even japanese knives sharpen fine on an india arkansas progression.