New US Table Saw injury report & statistics....

[ondablade]

Fine Woodworking's piece on it: http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/246 ... w-injuries

Link to the actual study:

http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstrac ... 99630.aspx

There's a few interesting observations in the piece. Most accidents involve cuts to and amputations of fingers and thumbs.

Re. our recent discussion on kickback - there actually seem to be relatively few accidents caused by flying wood.

Wonder what the comparable UK/European numbers might be?

ian

 

[Smudger]

31 people managed to amputate some part of their body other than a finger or thumb! Bloody hell!

 

[jimi43]

Some of the cheapest saws are so flimsy and poorly made that even properly used are inherently unsafe.
I feel these saws should not even be allowed to be sold. (but they are).

The above quote from the discussion is probably the answer as to why the numbers remain fairly static since the sensible European safety features (mainly the riving knife) have been added.

I believe the introduction of poorly constructed tablesaws in the "goody counter" of every B&Q like store has brought in a huge number of new users thinking that all these saws are the same.

Sadly...the type of user that buys a cheap saw is exactly the type of user that should not be using one at all!

I wonder if the breakdown goes into enough detail as to show injury by brand...

Jim

 

[yetloh]

None of these problems are helped by the fact that Fine Woodworking (and no doubt, all the other US mags) regularly publish pics showing unsafe practice. No doubt they comfort themselves with the thought that a small paragraph in the magazine somewhere headed "About your safety" gets them off the legal hook. Shameful.

It seems that a cavalier attitude to table saw safety is part of American woodworking culture and that this infects the mags just as much as it does woodworkers in general. The problem is that changing a culture is one of the hardest things to do - ask anyone who has tried merging two organisations after a corporate takeover.

For my part, as an amateur for whom time is not of the essence, I have never felt the need to a ts. They take up a lot of room which can be better employed in a small workshop. Mind you, if I worked a lot with sheet material I would probably take a different view.

Jim

 

[lurker]

None of these problems are helped by the fact that Fine Woodworking (and no doubt, all the other US mags) regularly publish pics showing unsafe practice. No doubt they comfort themselves with the thought that a small paragraph in the magazine somewhere headed "About your safety" gets them off the legal hook. Shameful.

It seems that a cavalier attitude to table saw safety is part of American woodworking culture and that this infects the mags just as much as it does woodworkers in general. The problem is that changing a culture is one of the hardest things to do - ask anyone who has tried merging two organisations after a corporate takeover.

For my part, as an amateur for whom time is not of the essence, I have never felt the need to a ts. They take up a lot of room which can be better employed in a small workshop. Mind you, if I worked a lot with sheet material I would probably take a different view.

Jim

Quite true, but back here in the UK whenever a safer system is proposed (mainly to protect the stupid from themselves) the cry of "elf n safety gone mad" is heard.

 

[yetloh]

I agree. God knows what the figures would look like if they included workplace injuries - I hear that safety inspections are almost unheard of in many parts of the US.

Jim

 

[stuartpaul]

If you're sad and want to be genuinely mind boggled by the sort of things Brits can hurt themselves with them go to

http://www.hassandlass.org.uk/query/reports.htm

Used to be an annual publication but probably too much effort these days.

Woodworking type issues about page 150 ish of the 2002 report.

The data is a bit old now but some of it still makes me smile (how can you hurt yourself with a face mask?).

 

[Ironballs]

I saw that report earlier and then read some of the comments on the FWW site, some of the comments were in favour and some were against. Almost all of the comments started with I decided to remove my riving knife and guard as it was causing me X or Y problem (like the wood kept binding on the riving knife, so what it bound on the blade instead!). But essentially their working practices were safe apparently.

Invariably they all finished up with "I had my accident when....."

Bloody pillocks

 

[big soft moose]

I saw that report earlier and then read some of the comments on the FWW site, some of the comments were in favour and some were against. Almost all of the comments started with I decided to remove my riving knife and guard as it was causing me X or Y problem (like the wood kept binding on the riving knife, so what it bound on the blade instead!). But essentially their working practices were safe apparently.

Invariably they all finished up with "I had my accident when....."

Bloody pillocks

Yeah the accident forum on lumberjocks is like that

" After removing the guards I... "

" I removed the riving knife and..."

" I was pushing the timber into the blade with my hand a good two inches from the kerf..." ( Heard of a push stick, moron )

"after having a few adult beverages...."

My all time favourite was the guy who wanted to cut some fishing line - but instead of just using a knife he wrapped it round both hands and offered it up to the spinning table saw - like you do .... pillock

It would be interesting to know how masny of these accidents occured with all the guards etc in place, sober operators, and safe working practices ... theres probably a few as bad luck can happen to anyone but i bet there arent many.

 

[Smudger]

Remember that guy who showed his 4-year old how to use a table saw?
The kid's now going through life minus a thumb.

 

[big soft moose]

Remember that guy who showed his 4-year old how to use a table saw?
The kid's now going through life minus a thumb.

yeah and his wife assured him he wassnt a bad father...

 

[Smudger]

My wife would have had my bits in a vice and then beaten me to death with my own arm.

 

[big soft moose]

My wife would have had my bits in a vice and then beaten me to death with my own arm.

yep mine too (not that we have kids but hypothetically)

but then neither of us would be so 'king stupid in the first place ( Though i must admit there might be some elf n safety concerns to letting chimps use power tools)

 

[Smudger]

Don't be daft. I can use m'feet as well.

Actually, there is a lovely piece of film of an orangutan doing carpentry, holding a piece of wood with his feet and hammering a nail in (with a hammer, natch) with his hands. It's in one of the Attenborough programmes. It looks so natural you forget he's an orangutan.
And an endangered species...

 

[big soft moose]

This (from lumberjocks) demonstrates why certain people shouldnt be allowed near power tools

pushing a slab of 1/4” thick x 20” wide lumber through the vintage planer, the board slipped up, hands went under, wood slapped down and was feeding both hands and arms into the planer…...........it stopped before entering but it sure pinched my fingers into one big blood blister.

slipping on junk on the floor, loose balance, fall and hand slides across moving jointer knives…........just shaved the skin off

cutting a board on the TS, kicked and jammed hand against saw blade….....burnt the skin off

cutting cove on the TS, multiple passes on a 45 degree angle and had the fence on the wrong side of the blade, kicked back and sharpened index finger into apencil point.

drove screw through finger, into ceiling, dropped screw driver and was crucified to ceiling forthe next couple hours

pulled nail from ceiling, hammer came down and sliced my forehead open.

TWICE…...........I’ve ripped small strips on the TS and cut index finger, then baby finger into liver patte’

I mean it can happen to anyone once - but that many times you've got to wonder why he didnt learn the first time

the thread i got it from is here some other beauties on there including the guy who cut himself open from sternum to belt (through kick back while not using a riving knife) but "wasnt sure whether he should go to emergency" and also (one for you smudger) one where the guy amputated several toes while using his foot to hold a board still while ripping with a circular saw

 

[Smudger]

FFS!

True story - last year our neighbour in France (a farmer) offered to cut down willow at the end of our garden - it was entangled in other stuff, half fallen down and likely to cause a problem.

He chainsawed it (he has several chainsaws, including one for beam-sized joinery, but he doesn't seem to own any safety equipment). At one point he was laid in the bushes with his face about two inches from the chainsaw trying to force his way in to get to the base of the tree...

He's the guy I watched cut a mortice and tenon in a 30cm oak beam whilst standing on a straw bale in the bucket of his tractor.

Like a guy on that link said, if you haven't had an accident it's because you are lucky. Well, I reckon Claud's had about fifty other people's as well.

 

[big soft moose]

He's the guy I watched cut a mortice and tenon in a 30cm oak beam whilst standing on a straw bale in the bucket of his tractor.
.

to be fair in the past ive done some fairly hair raising stuff with a chainsaw too (tho i wouldnt do it these days) including doing some lop and top with one foot on the top of a truck and the other in the fork of a tree

but i always used full ppe even back then - and tho i did have a few accidents (the worst when a tree i was felling broad down the dead top of another straight onto my head) they werent really avoidable and i never had a serious injury result.

 

[Smudger]

Yebbut - he's got a scaffolding tower!
The tree surgeons who saved our kitchen before Christmas were doing some very hairy things. No choice - and also we got them out of the pub...

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree with Yetloh that FWW bears much culpability in this. They are are biggest mag in the world by a country mile and they show poor practice practiaclly every single issue. And now the same bad practices are filmed and shown on their web-site as "this is the way to do it". It's no wonder so many people think it's OK when the flagship mag promotes these practices. The photos are so much bigger tan the text which says "use the safety equipment".

I just let my FWW sub lapse after nearly 20 years, although mainly becasue I couldn't bear yet another article on how to make a drawer 5 different ways. I know I'll miss it for inspiration, but at least my ire won't be raised 6 times year.

Perhaps the world is crying out for a DVD specifically on tablesaw safety. The problem is that my own approach is not exactly industry standard. Of course, I never use the machine without a guard, but then it's never the guard that came with the machine either. I have a SUVA-style guard for ripping and a stand-alone guard that I use with jigs. Sometimes the jigs themselves have guarding built into the design. Also my riving knife is not the original. Also my saw is not CE-rated. Also.....

Perhaps that would be pushing my luck just a tad too far. Nice idea, though.

S

 

[lurker]

Whilst slagging off the funny furriners lets not forget our home grow idiots.

Ask any time served A&E nurse or Doc about the cupid stunts they have to deal with.

As a H&S professional I get sick of people saying "why do we have to have that regulation - its common sense" - trouble is, most of the population do not seem to have any.