New to the Forum

[Parquet Dave]

Joined the forum last night so thought I ought to post a little introduction, having been a secret browser picking up tips for a few years.

I'm a hardwood floor layer (amongst other things) installing and refurbishing all types of hardwood flooring, I don't do laminate on the basis of if I wouldn't be happy to have a product in my house I will not put it in a customers.

I've installed most types of hardwood flooring from small hallways up to 1000m2 sports halls including working in national museums and countless shops and bars.

I get the most enjoyment out of herringbone both installing new floors or repairing an existing floor, there's something therapeutic :lol:


I've made a few items of furniture both for myself and for a couple of friends, including fitted bookcases and a window seat for myself and a solid oak stereo cabinet for a friend, I'll post some photos when I get my head round how to do it.
I served an apprenticeship as a mechanical engineer before being made redundant, and found the skills of an engineer transfer quite well into wood work, and approach most 'little projects' with an engineering approach.

 

[mseries]

Welcome Dave. Nice to see someone else in West Yorkshire, there are quite a few of us

 

[gregmcateer]

Nice to have another member, Dave.
Welcome aboard.
Greg

 

[John15]

Welcome Dave

John

 

[Alexam]

Welcome to the forum Dave. Hope you enjoy and pick up a few tips along the way.

Alex

 

[AES]

Welcome to the Forum Dave.

Your introductory comments about laminate interest me - we have a laminate floor in the sitting room which has unfortunately been damaged by damp ingress (now repaired). I've tried sanding back the damaged area in a couple of places, then re-varnishing, but I guess not surprisingly, both SWMBO and I have decided the result is "NBG"! So a new floor is called for.

I haven't yet decided what floor exactly (here in Switzerland there's a whole range of laminates types/qualities/prices to choose from) and being retired the budget for the job is not "unlimited". But as well as the price, the idea of the click together aspects of laminated floors is quite appealing, especially as I'm far from being a skilled chippy, just an average DIY'er, albeit with an engineering background like you.

OTOH, the idea of a solid wood floor is certainly a "nice" idea, but from what little I understand a lot more preparation is required for a solid wood floor than for a laminate floor, AND there's the problem of doing the real skilled chippy work (mitres and all that, though I do have a cheapo SCMS).

Do you have any comments please? Given a reasonable amount of common sense, just how hard is it to lay a solid floor really? As there are no doorways in the sitting room, would it make sense to try and lay a solid wood floor on top of the existing (damaged) laminate floor? And while I understand you won't have any idea of prices in Switzerland, what sort of price differential between a decent quality laminate floor and a solid wooden floor exists in the UK (£ per sq foot or per sq Metre)? And lastly, given a reasonable go at the job with no major snags, what sort of time difference is there between laying a laminate and a solid wood floor? After clearing the room, could both be a 1 day job?

FYI, the existing laminate floor is laid herring bone pattern (which we both like) and is cherry/beech colour. Approx room dimensions are 8 metres square.

How about that - only just joined the Forum and people start asking YOU questions! But thanks in advance for any help you can offer.



AES

 

[Parquet Dave]

Thanks for the welcome folks.

AES I think there might be some translation differences. In the UK we refer to laminate as the 'plastic' type product such as quick step or at the top end Pergo.

Given that you mention trying to sand and re varnish I have a feeling that you are likely to refer to what we in the UK call an engineered product, this is of a ply-type construction with a hardwood wear layer usually between 4-6mm thick. In addition I don't think I've ever seen 'plastic laminate' laid herringbone, but I have laid engineered in a herringbone pattern.

In the UK you can pick up the cheapest of cheapest 'plastic' laminate at around £6.99 a m2 and engineered of a reasonable quality for around £20-£30 m2 depending on species. Solid unfinished would start around £30m2. (Trade prices)

Engineered parquet battens are likely to be a little more expensive, I suspect this is due to the fact that each individual piece has to be machined on four sides where as a engineered strip floor covers a greater area for the same machining time.

Depending on the sub-floor depends on the level of preparation required, also how is the existing floor fitted?

As a guide an 8m2 room is with no doorways laid in a straight pattern would be a days work at the most in laminate, engineered or pre-finished solid.
If you were to include a border then your looking at an extra day depending on the shape of the room.
If your looking at herringbone on existing floorboards then the preparation would be to lay 6mm WBP ply over the existing floorboards, screwed or nailed with ring shank nails at 150mm centers. Then if your gluing the floor down you would set out the first line allowing the adhesive to set overnight.
Then on the second day lay the rest of the floor. The border on the third and if unfinished timber is being used the sanding and treatment on the fourth. It might be possible to condense the time into 3 days with it being a small area but its the curing time of the adhesive that is the restriction.

The same method would be used if the subfloor is concrete but with floorboards there is the option to nail which can speed up the process.

I hope that helps.

 

[AES]

Thanks Dave, that's all very clear. I think you're right about translation, our floor is what you are calling engineered I think - certainly it's a "composite" construction, with a beech top layer (stained to look cherry-ish) of about 4 mm thick, and that's on top of 2 "plies" of MR MDF (well it's green-ish coloured MDF anyway), rather than actual ply wood. Those 2 layers have the "click-fit" grooves machined into them, one groove for the lengths, one for the widths.

The floor is definitely concrete and as far as I can tell the "wood" has been laid onto sheets of "plastic foam" about 4 mm thick (it was laid before we bought the house) - I have so far only lifted one piece to discover that the original water leak was coming from under the French doors via outside, not from the door frame onto the floor inside!

Anyway you've provided a lot of info, thanks a lot. From all that you've said I guess that whatever I finally decide to use, you would NOT recommend simply laying the new floor on top of the old?

Thanks again, cheers

AES

 

[Parquet Dave]

Hi AES
As the existing floor is a floating system, I can see no advantage of leaving it down, the effort required to uplift will be minimal.
If it were my house - and that's how I try to look at every job - I would proceed as follows;

Having checked the concrete subfloor is dry (<5% moisture) and as you've lived there a while it more than likely will be (if not a liquid DPM could be used). And the subfloor has no more than 3mm deviation under a 3m straightedge in any direction. I'd glue the new floor down using a product like Sika T52 liquid batten system or if a trowel type adhesive possibly Lecoll 5500 (better if the flooring is pre finished due to easier clean up). The Sika T52 (others are available) sticks fantastic but has a greasy consistency and is an absolute pain to remove if you accidentally get any on to prefinished flooring.
Both adhesives are suitable to lay a herringbone pattern directly onto concrete.

So far you've made no reference to underfloor heating, if there is then stick with engineered or if you really want a solid then Junckers would be your safest bet.

 

[Claymore]

.............

 

[AES]

Thanks again Dave. Confirm no under floor heating (just radiators), it's quite an old house. We have Sika adhesives here, in fact I think that's a Swiss company.

Again, welcome to the Forum, I'll leave you in peace now while I think about it all.

AES

 

[Parquet Dave]

AES
Your welcome, if I can help anymore just give me a shout.

Thanks for the welcome Claymore, I get up to Dumfries a few times a year, lovely part of the world.