Thanks. Really helpful. I'm still regretting doing my framing at 400 centres and not 400 spacing. 353 pieces of insulation here I come!
New company, new career
- Thread starter Molynoox
- Start date
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Molynoox
Established Member
Haha yeah, but it's only on the base you can do the 400mm gaps because you can use tongue and groove boards and PU glue meaning you don't need to land the joins on a joist.
With the walls and ceiling you do need to land the joins on the timbers because you will have normal sheet goods on there.
Martin
With the walls and ceiling you do need to land the joins on the timbers because you will have normal sheet goods on there.
Martin
Interesting thread. I'm approaching retirement from my day job, and thinking about what to do to fill my time. I've just built a garden room myself, and did think about going commercial, but I've decided I'm too old and creaky for big builds for customers! I think I'll have to stick to handyman bits and pieces.
The question I have is why are you framing up instead of using SIPs? - you take a heck of a lot of time out of the build and with 8x4 122mm SIPs @ £90inc not much more expensive? my build is here... https://community.screwfix.com/threads/garden-room.256842/
The question I have is why are you framing up instead of using SIPs? - you take a heck of a lot of time out of the build and with 8x4 122mm SIPs @ £90inc not much more expensive? my build is here... https://community.screwfix.com/threads/garden-room.256842/
Molynoox
Established Member
Hi,
I've looked into SIPS quite a bit. I will build in SIPS in future, not sure exactly when yet, I just need to find the right time to switch over.
Nice build by the way
Martin
Molynoox
Established Member
Hi All,
A few people have asked about how my business is going and I thought I would do an update in this thread.
Overall, I would say things are a lot better and looking really positive but I'm still not quite out of the woods:
Garden Room 1
Here are some pics of the first one, I did post some from week 1 and 2 in this thread, but here are some finished pics.
The customers are super happy and they left me an amazing review on google:
I will do another post for the cartlodge as I am out of pic allowance on this one probably
Martin
A few people have asked about how my business is going and I thought I would do an update in this thread.
Overall, I would say things are a lot better and looking really positive but I'm still not quite out of the woods:
- I have finished my first official won business, a garden room, I will put some pictures below
- I have started my second won business, which isn't a garden room, it is a cartlodge.
- I have multiple enquiries from the same street for more cartlodges, as people have seen me working and have commented that they like what they see
Garden Room 1
Here are some pics of the first one, I did post some from week 1 and 2 in this thread, but here are some finished pics.
The customers are super happy and they left me an amazing review on google:
I will do another post for the cartlodge as I am out of pic allowance on this one probably
Martin
Looks fantastic and the review is a real testament to you personally.
Very pleased to hear you are persevering and getting more business.
Molynoox
Established Member
Cartlodge
To be honest I wanted another garden room as my second piece of business, just to make life a bit easier. It would be a bit of repetition and familiarity, but that is not what landed and so off we go into the rabbit hole of obsessive research that is my MO on new projects
This was word of mouth business - I was recommended by my first garden room customer (lets call him Mr M) to his new neighbour that moved in to a nearby empty house. It was a bit of a feather in my hat actually because Mr M has a cartlodge, built by the original developer of the housing estate, and it was this that caught the eye of the new neighbour as their house came without a garage, as all of the new builds in the estate seem to. Anyway, turns out Mr M recommended me to the neighbour, instead of the arguably more logical approach which was to recommend the cartlodge builder / developer. He is actually really friendly with the original builder so I thought he might have recommended them instead of me.
Anyway, onto the project....
Overview / Design
So this is different from a garden room in a number of key areas:
I decided to do a CAD sketch for it to get my head around what is needed. I went through a few design iterations to get something that worked, the mezz floor was the tricky part as its either a 5.5m span or a 7m span for the joists. Obviously 5.5m span is preferable but I wanted to tie the base of the rafters together with the joists and that would mean a 7m span because the roof slopes front to back along the 7m rather than side to side along the 5.5m. Does that make any sense? Here is my initial design, it might help explain:
That beam at the back is inset from the back slightly and brings the span down from 7m to 6m. Using span tables I was able to make the design work with 9x2 timbers running front to back. Anyway, long story short the structural engineer poo pooed that idea and insisted on 203mm steel work middle and back with two separate shorter beams connected in the middle. The problem then was additional cost (about £2,000) which the customer didn't want to pay for as their plan for the mezz floor was quote "xmas decorations". The steelwork seemed excessive to them, and I have to admit I sort of agree.
So third and final design was a slightly hybrid approach, and was approved by SE, and as far as customer is concerned 'zero additional cost' and therefore approved by them also. It was probably just an additional £200 for me in CLS over my initial design so I just absorbed that in favour of moving forward. In this design, I have triple 9x2 runnig across the 5.5m span every 1.2m and then a layer of 4x2 joists on top running longitudinally front to back at 600 centres. The 4x2 will be used to tie the rafters together at the base, which is what will prevent it from 'splaying out'. Here is the design:
You can see on the first picture the foundations build up:
Just a little word about the customer, he is a builder and retired building company owner. Him and his wife are some of the nicest people you can imagine meeting and a real pleasure to work for. He really appreciates my level of detail and is enjoying watching it all come together.
Martin
To be honest I wanted another garden room as my second piece of business, just to make life a bit easier. It would be a bit of repetition and familiarity, but that is not what landed and so off we go into the rabbit hole of obsessive research that is my MO on new projects
This was word of mouth business - I was recommended by my first garden room customer (lets call him Mr M) to his new neighbour that moved in to a nearby empty house. It was a bit of a feather in my hat actually because Mr M has a cartlodge, built by the original developer of the housing estate, and it was this that caught the eye of the new neighbour as their house came without a garage, as all of the new builds in the estate seem to. Anyway, turns out Mr M recommended me to the neighbour, instead of the arguably more logical approach which was to recommend the cartlodge builder / developer. He is actually really friendly with the original builder so I thought he might have recommended them instead of me.
Anyway, onto the project....
Overview / Design
So this is different from a garden room in a number of key areas:
- Planning permission
- Building regulations / building control
- Structural engineering calculations
- 1m deep strip foundations
- 6 courses of bricks, damp proof course, reinforced concrete pad
- Mezzanine floor
- Oak frame (at front only)
- Dual pitch roof, rafters set at 45 deg and birds mouthed into the front and back beams
- 5m wide powered roller shutter
- 7m deep x 5.5m wide
I decided to do a CAD sketch for it to get my head around what is needed. I went through a few design iterations to get something that worked, the mezz floor was the tricky part as its either a 5.5m span or a 7m span for the joists. Obviously 5.5m span is preferable but I wanted to tie the base of the rafters together with the joists and that would mean a 7m span because the roof slopes front to back along the 7m rather than side to side along the 5.5m. Does that make any sense? Here is my initial design, it might help explain:
That beam at the back is inset from the back slightly and brings the span down from 7m to 6m. Using span tables I was able to make the design work with 9x2 timbers running front to back. Anyway, long story short the structural engineer poo pooed that idea and insisted on 203mm steel work middle and back with two separate shorter beams connected in the middle. The problem then was additional cost (about £2,000) which the customer didn't want to pay for as their plan for the mezz floor was quote "xmas decorations". The steelwork seemed excessive to them, and I have to admit I sort of agree.
So third and final design was a slightly hybrid approach, and was approved by SE, and as far as customer is concerned 'zero additional cost' and therefore approved by them also. It was probably just an additional £200 for me in CLS over my initial design so I just absorbed that in favour of moving forward. In this design, I have triple 9x2 runnig across the 5.5m span every 1.2m and then a layer of 4x2 joists on top running longitudinally front to back at 600 centres. The 4x2 will be used to tie the rafters together at the base, which is what will prevent it from 'splaying out'. Here is the design:
You can see on the first picture the foundations build up:
- 800mm strip foundation
- 215mm blockwork
- 3 courses of engineering bricks
- DPC
- 6 courses of decorative Ibstock Westminster bricks
- Plinth stretchers (angled bricks)
- We also have some bricks piers out the front for the oak posts, these are 700mm x 700mm and same depth as the strip
Just a little word about the customer, he is a builder and retired building company owner. Him and his wife are some of the nicest people you can imagine meeting and a real pleasure to work for. He really appreciates my level of detail and is enjoying watching it all come together.
Martin
Molynoox
Established Member
Cartlodge Progress Pics
We are about 1-2 weeks away from finishing this build, here are some pics:
It has been challenging building this without the oak, which was on a 6 week leadtime, so I had to work around that by putting in temporary supports to build the roof. But we are getting there and I was so pleased to finally get the oak installed yesterday maing way for the front rafters and hence finishing the roof.
Hoping to finish next week, still remaining is to finish the sheathing, install membrane, battens and cedral cladding, add roof battens and tiles, soffits and fascias, pour the concrete pad and finally electrics.
Martin
We are about 1-2 weeks away from finishing this build, here are some pics:
It has been challenging building this without the oak, which was on a 6 week leadtime, so I had to work around that by putting in temporary supports to build the roof. But we are getting there and I was so pleased to finally get the oak installed yesterday maing way for the front rafters and hence finishing the roof.
Hoping to finish next week, still remaining is to finish the sheathing, install membrane, battens and cedral cladding, add roof battens and tiles, soffits and fascias, pour the concrete pad and finally electrics.
Martin
Molynoox
Established Member
Enquiries and Future Business
So here is the final part in this update, I still need to work on being more concise
Since starting the cartlodge build I have been approached by 2 other house owners on the same road and another house owner from about 10 metres away. So I have 3 active cartlodge enquiries. There are only 5 houses in the road, and I have already built a garden room for one and halfway through cartlodge for another. So it's almost a full house at this rate!
They are all interested in having a cartlodge, and so far I have quoted two of them and they seem really serious and interested in using me. You can never tell of course, they may well be speaking to many other companies, but I have high confidence that I am the front runner based on my (regular) conversations with them all. I keep joking with my wife that I know more people from this neighbourhood (in Burnham on Crouch) than I do in my own and I have lived here for 20 years
Here is a sketch I have done for one of the current enquiries, I basically re-used the CAD from my existing customer and just added in the new driveway and house so that the customer could get a feel for things:
Martin
So here is the final part in this update, I still need to work on being more concise
Since starting the cartlodge build I have been approached by 2 other house owners on the same road and another house owner from about 10 metres away. So I have 3 active cartlodge enquiries. There are only 5 houses in the road, and I have already built a garden room for one and halfway through cartlodge for another. So it's almost a full house at this rate!
They are all interested in having a cartlodge, and so far I have quoted two of them and they seem really serious and interested in using me. You can never tell of course, they may well be speaking to many other companies, but I have high confidence that I am the front runner based on my (regular) conversations with them all. I keep joking with my wife that I know more people from this neighbourhood (in Burnham on Crouch) than I do in my own and I have lived here for 20 years
Here is a sketch I have done for one of the current enquiries, I basically re-used the CAD from my existing customer and just added in the new driveway and house so that the customer could get a feel for things:
Martin
Molynoox
Established Member
HOJ
Established Member
What a difference a year or so makes @Molynoox perseverance and application is clearly paying off, I for one am really impressed with what you are doing, all your projects look superb.
Interesting to see you are using Sketchup, have you looked at buying in to the pro version? along with Layout you can create very detailed drawings.
I can also recommend this book, Sketchup & Layout which completely changed the way I work with my drawing output.
Happy to share my experience if it helps in any way.
Interesting to see you are using Sketchup, have you looked at buying in to the pro version? along with Layout you can create very detailed drawings.
I can also recommend this book, Sketchup & Layout which completely changed the way I work with my drawing output.
Happy to share my experience if it helps in any way.
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Molynoox
Established Member
Thanks Hoj, you have already provided loads of great advice to me over the last few months. I owe a lot to forum members like you and others that have offered up advice that's helped me through it.
I do use sketchup yeah, I like to visualise the designs before I build. Customers seem to be impressed with it too so it's a win win. I will defo try that book, I love SketchUp but sometimes it drives me mad when I'm trying to do something that seems really simple but i just can't seem to do it. I'm sure I'm doing something fundamentally wrong sometimes and maybe the book could help me out.
I haven't tried the paid versions and I didn't know about the 2d stuff. That could be really handy. One thing I would like to upgrade for is the way that you join objects in SketchUp... With free version doing those sort of transforms by adding or subtracting one shape from another is a nightmare but an almost essential CAD function.
Martin
Molynoox
Established Member
Hi James,
Thanks yeah it's going to look good I think. Cladding is Cedral cement board to match the house, here is a pic before we filled the drive full of stuff, you can see the house on left. Cladding and tiles will be matched to the house.
The oak posts were dropped down onto metal spindles which we built into the piers when doing the brickwork. The rest of the stud walls are anchored to the brick dwarf walls using metal strapping.
Any thoughts on that approach?
Martin
HOJ
Established Member
Not to bore you, but with the pro Sketchup the ability to produce quite complex detail for things like Building regs and SE details is very useful, I have set up a lot of templates outlining standard methods, which can then be used across different projects, so whilst the initial input can be a bit time consuming, once its is done you can drag and drop the relevant spec into the plans in hand.
Snapshot of one I did a couple of years ago, all from one Sketchup drawing:
Snapshot of one I did a couple of years ago, all from one Sketchup drawing:
Not actually something I use to be honest, so cant help with that one.
Molynoox
Established Member
Not boring me at all! That's very interesting. £300 annual for pro and £600 for studio. Studio has the rendering bit which I'm really interested in, but that's quite a bit of cash to spend on something that's probably not essential. I think pro could be worth a shot though, I just have to figure out if I need that functionality or not. For the cartlodge the SE did the drawings so I am not sure if I need to generate any myself... Hmmm.
Fantastic update Martin - I’ve enjoyed your Instagram posts and it’s great to see you growing your business - are you totally on your own now or are you still working for the landscape gardener?
It goes to show how word of mouth is the no. 1 for this type of business and now you’ve got a few customers that network is only going to grow!
It goes to show how word of mouth is the no. 1 for this type of business and now you’ve got a few customers that network is only going to grow!
Molynoox
Established Member
thanks James, I appreciate the support
when I won the first garden room my wife joked that if word of mouth is my primary marketting method that all my business is going to be in Burnham on Crouch. Looks like that's not such a joke anymore! Its about a 40 minute commute, so not ideal, but not a dissaster either in reality, its quite a nice drive with minimal traffic. Maybe we will just move to Burnham....
I am still working for the landscaping company, and on these builds that are mine we do a profit share and I use his manpower. I plan to go it alone as soon as the time is right, as that is absolutely the long term goal. I feel like I need a pipeline of about 5 or 6 lined up before it makes sense to make the leap and build my own team, get insurance etc. So I am not quite there yet but I'm defo. working towards it
Martin
HOJ
Established Member
If the SE has written a spec and provided any DWG drawings, along with your standard specs, you commonly use, they can all be imported into Sketchup and Layout, I add that info to my spec which then also includes all the other relevant elements required, even as far as the M & E layout, drainage, materials etc, it becomes a site bible for the other trades as well, to be able to follow and if necessary be used to price from, and also acts as a means of communicating all these details to clients, for clarity, and any other parties involved.
You can still get reasonable render straight from SU, still only using one drawing, I use the scenes tabs to create the views I need, either in 3D or 2D sections, and place them in layout.
For example, simple porch build:
All the above was generated from this one SU drawing which can be presented in different ways.
You can still get reasonable render straight from SU, still only using one drawing, I use the scenes tabs to create the views I need, either in 3D or 2D sections, and place them in layout.
For example, simple porch build:
All the above was generated from this one SU drawing which can be presented in different ways.
Molynoox
Established Member
wow, this is super impressive!
I love the way you work, I thought I was detailed in my quotes and planning but this is next level.
I cant read the writing in the first pic but would love to have a look at it if you don't mind sharing, I find this stuff really interesting and I aspire to your standards, I would really like to get to that level eventually
thanks for sharing it
Martin
